Comments on The Burd Report: An uncrowded beach?

Wally and Armchair have a lot of time in their han...

2010-08-14T15:04:54.367-04:00

Wally and Armchair have a lot of time in their hands: The WA, WA team.

Why can't they organise the Samba Festival together ? Toronto will come here to rehearse here for free.Did you know that ?

One will promote his lovely poetry, the other can work hard contacting and also revising the Town's minutes in order to share wisdowm in its next professional presentation.

You will be a great pair !
:-)

As I said before, I agree Victoria Park should be ...

2010-08-14T12:13:35.222-04:00

As I said before, I agree Victoria Park should be for the exclusive leisure of the people.

Victoria Park is just a few steps away from the historic architecture of the downtown, keeping its charm and appeal.

It is part of an Open Space Plan which aims to safeguard the survival of Cobourg's economic health and visual appeal.

Open space gives a place distinctive character. It relaxes the eye and soothe the spirit. It invites recreational use and enjoyment, cuts dust and noise pollution, could absorbs flood waters, provides wildlife with a natural habitat, filters poluted water and air, and moderates the climate with leafy windbreak and shade.

My son crashed at my place last month while I was ...

2010-08-13T15:59:03.311-04:00

My son crashed at my place last month while I was gone. He brought his Vietnamese girlfriend for the first time to Cobourg. Aside from me, their best time was Victoria Park & beach. It was free, that is to say, ungated. That meant everything.

Victoria Park and Beach is not a business. It is a common trust, to be rigorously distinct from a business district.

And if we could figure out a way to charge people ...

2010-08-13T14:30:50.639-04:00

And if we could figure out a way to charge people for the air they breathe, we could really get rich!

Victoria Park was specifically designated as public space many generations ago by our forebears. They wanted people to have access to its beauty and be able to enjoy it whenever they wanted.

I, for one, appreciate and respect their wishes, and am grateful that my grand-daughters, like my kids, like me, and like my parents and their parents, are able to have this experience in our beautiful Park.

This is one tradition we should keep. My grand-daughters' children will thank us all for it.

Victoria Park and beach are not a campground; or a...

2010-08-13T12:58:17.728-04:00

Victoria Park and beach are not a campground; or a provincial park; or a marina; or what ever else you might think up that charges for it's use. It is a park and public beach. Don't you guys get it??? A PARK AND A PUBLIC BEACH!! There are gadzillions of these such things around the world and guess what... those parks and public beaches are free as well.
Would you join a Country Club for god's sake if the gated lifestyle is what you prefer.

Interesting comment by Deanno: "No one owns t...

2010-08-13T11:59:14.134-04:00

Interesting comment by Deanno: "No one owns the beach" but the Town is certainly responsible for regulating its use, including cleaning the sand and emptying garbage bins.

Eventually, if present trends toward increased use continue, it would not be unreasonable to implement some kind of cost recovery from users to ease the burden on Cobourg taxpayers.

After all, if you bring a boat to the Marina or a trailer to the Campground, you have to pay for the privilege. And if you want to use the beach at Presqu'Ile or any other provincial campground, it will cost nearly $10 for a day pass.

Why should Cobourg beach be a free for all?

with your outlook, you fit right in here. as the s...

2010-08-13T10:31:20.902-04:00

with your outlook, you fit right in here. as the saying goes, misery loves company

Anyhow... No one owns the beach. No one really own...

2010-08-12T22:41:21.963-04:00

Anyhow... No one owns the beach. No one really owns the land that we inhabit. We are only guardians for a very short time. I would like a town that I am proud to leave to my children. Unfortunately, it is obvious that we have a long way to go to achieve this.

Dear Anonymous, Unfortunately we can't play ...

2010-08-12T22:38:16.780-04:00

Dear Anonymous,

Unfortunately we can't play together anymore. It really is too bad, I was enjoying how we got off to a somewhat substantive start. Then you took this weird turn of not choosing to make any sense and to hurl insults rather than toss around ideas and debate facts.

If/when you come back to your senses, shoot me a line. But until then, I'm not going to engage with you, cause frankly, you give me the crazy vibe.

Anyone else that wants to have an actual discussion, I'm game.

Cheers!

I believe you should consult yourself the minutes ...

2010-08-12T17:25:31.342-04:00

I believe you should consult yourself the minutes of the Corporation of the Town of Cobourg Mr. Armchair.

I have done my homework. It contains a lot --and you will have to learn also to read between the lines.

Anonymous asserted, "It is important to ch...

2010-08-12T17:23:19.345-04:00
Anonymous asserted, "It is important to check your facts from real sources, not from websites."

Anonymous is pumping irony; they haven't presented a single fact from any source to support their opinion, which has much nutritional substance as a slice of Wonderbread left out on a picnic table after a summer thunderstorm.

I can write a huge book with what you don't kn...

2010-08-12T16:48:57.718-04:00
I can write a huge book with what you don't know. Unfortunately a lot are like you. People deserve the council they have elected !

Anonymous - you have come back with a lot of blust...

2010-08-12T14:03:16.484-04:00
Anonymous - you have come back with a lot of bluster and arrogance, but to any reader on here, they can see that yet again, you are doing nothing more than simply spouting unsubstantiated statements.

I pulled up several references from a reputable site, backed up with specific figures and references. You have responded with a personal attack.

Would you be so kind as to prove, as you are so fond of demanding, that the taxes went up during the time period mentioned? Or that the Mayor and CAO did a poor job, and why? I speak in specifics, you are fond of sweeping generalizations.

Also, how do you know who I voted for? I said nothing to either support or reject Chalovich's work. Get some credibility and then come back to me, until then you are simply spouting hateful, unsubstantiated BS.

Armchair it's time you retire and rock on your...

2010-08-12T12:51:57.723-04:00
Armchair it's time you retire and rock on your porch.

It is important to check your facts from real sources, not from websites. You seem to be a firm believer in everything you read including our Local Newspaper which is fairly criticized by Wally. Don't be so naive.

Why Chalovich time,it's because it happened there, in front of me. Your tax bill increased a lot, since you voted for her twice. Baxter was a poor city administrator and now you deal with rubber stampers.

For the majority of Cobourgers, it's a lot easy to say to yourself, mediocrity is not bad, they are doing such a good job.

I dedicate to you and the Cobourg taxpayers the song Five to One, by Jim Morrison.
Wally knows the song well.

Critical1 arrogantly boasted, "Now about y...

2010-08-12T11:10:45.825-04:00
Critical1 arrogantly boasted, "Now about yours and others comment that our waterfront was financed by federal and provincial grants. NOT!"

OK Critical One, now it's time for you to provide the facts to support your contention. Put up or shut up as the saying goes. C'mon, do it.

Mucho thanks Armchair QB for this valuable informa...

2010-08-12T11:04:46.680-04:00
Mucho thanks Armchair QB for this valuable information. That should stuff the discharging pie-holes of the selfish and self-centred THE PARK IS OURS OURS OURS ALONE!!!!

haha thanks Anon! Your posting brought a good smi...

2010-08-12T10:53:49.358-04:00
haha thanks Anon! Your posting brought a good smile and chuckle for me today - always nice to see a funny, AND accurate posting.

oh dear Armchair, don't be too hopefull that y...

2010-08-12T10:17:39.236-04:00
oh dear Armchair, don't be too hopefull that your information and clarifications will mean anything to or have any discernible impact on the the professional whiners that frequent this space. You expect far too much of them; they're fueled by dissatisfaction and reason only gets in their way. From the rest of the audience, many thanks for your info.

I'm sure you can figure out who the pros (or should that read cons) are here.

happy to respond to the still uninformed opinions ...

2010-08-12T09:12:47.732-04:00
happy to respond to the still uninformed opinions of Anon and critical1.

here are but a few examples of the significant funds, and demonstrations of financial support for our waterfront from the feds and province. I am sure there are numerous others out there, perhaps you could inform yourself by doing a basic google search. I have backed up my claims.

Per the attached link, from Cobourg’s official history – http://www.cobourghistory.ca/assets/pdfs/Versace.PDF

The transfer and improvements of the harbor were completely covered by federal grant;

The construction of the current marina building in 1989 was covered by a $526,000 provincial grant;

The $780,000 of improvements in 1992 were shared locally and with the Waterfront Regeneration Trust, an organization founded and funded by the province and federal government;

In terms of your comparison of grants to Cobourg versus major cities, you are correct, Cobourg, population under 20,000, has received far less than Toronto, Montreal, Vancouver, who have millions in population, significant economic activity, and are national hubs for tourism and other activity. Cobourg has definitely received its share of support over the years for this development.

As for Critical1's lack of understanding regarding ongoing support, why don't you have a look at the amount of funding that is transfered from both levels of government to the Town budget on an annual basis and where it is spent, I have pointed out where you can find the info, instead of asking me to spoon feed it to you, why don't you go do your own legwork.

As for Anon and his attack on Joan Chalovich (unsure why this has come up!) It was Chalovich and Read in their years as Mayor's of Cobourg that got this project started. Also, they did it during tough economic times. I am not following why the widening of a road at Kraft was a bad thing for our town, it has served to enable the flow of traffic from the 401 corridor to the downtown core and our waterfront with greater ease.

Anywho, clear examples above, clear direction on where you can find more info, and clearly backing up the claims I have made.
Cheers!

If Armchair QB believes we received lots of money,...

2010-08-11T22:15:03.935-04:00
If Armchair QB believes we received lots of money, perhaps he can be specific.

Under Joan Chalovich, Baxter made you pay top dollars to sit your BBQ on the waterfront !

Allow me to refresh your memory on Joan Chalovich era : you paid for widening the road for Kraft General Foods,you received less development fees than other communities (to accomodate new manufactures),and finally the waterfront trailers always paid peanuts compared to everyone else while you are deprived from this gem a century-old park. Joan always had problems with her adding machine and her vision.

To Armchair QB-- Transfer payments for operating ...

2010-08-11T20:37:17.101-04:00
To Armchair QB--

Transfer payments for operating elements (whatever that means)is not the same as the outright grants in the millions given by the Feds to cities such as Toronto, Montreal and Quebec City (and no doubt others) to turn old industrial areas into waterfront parkland.

I'd like to be informed about this federal and provincial support you speak so confidently of. How about providing some numbers to back up your claims?

To critical1, unfortunately you are incorrect in y...

2010-08-11T11:52:52.150-04:00
To critical1, unfortunately you are incorrect in your statement about federal and provincial support for the park / harbour area. It was done with support from all three levels of government, as well as support from service clubs. no matter how you want to cut it, dollars from outside our community have helped to pay for that waterfront area.

Still today, the Town benefits from support from the feds and province through transfer payments to support operating elements in Cobourg, as every municipality within our federation does. To claim that it was and is only Cobourg dollars that created and maintain that space is simply false.

Unfortunately you do not seem to be aware of this reality, hope the above has helped to inform you.

Coburg, Germany was very placid when I was last th...

2010-08-11T08:17:10.903-04:00
Coburg, Germany was very placid when I was last there.

If they can have a Samba festival without a lakefront, then so can we -- in James Cockburn Park. Go ahead critical1, organize it and I will surely attend.

In olden days there were federally funded Opportunities for Youth grants, Local Initiative Programs grants, and other Trudeau govt generosities. As Armchair QB said, summer jobs for students, subsidy for police services.

Ok Wally, here's a not quite original tourism ...

2010-08-10T23:47:14.962-04:00
Ok Wally, here's a not quite original tourism idea, but why not have a Samba Festival on the Beach and downtown on Civic Holiday weekend when Cobourg has nothing on but a pathetic little sidewalk sale. Our sister city Coburg Germany has one of the biggest Samba Festivals in Europe, they say) and they don't even have a beach! Maybe they could give us some free advice, in a sisterly way.

See- http://www.samba-festival.de/

Wouldn't that be cool- hot Brazilian dancers, a cool lake, cold beer imported from Coburg, Germany and a downtown thronged with revellers.

Now about yours and others comment that our waterfront was financed by federal and provincial grants. NOT! The Town paid market price to Canada Lands Corp for the old railyards north of the harbour. The rest seems to have been paid by the Rotary and by Cobourg taxpayers. Meanwhile, the Feds have kicked in millions for Toronto's Harbourfront, the Downsview Park, and they're still at it. Finance Minister Flaherty was on hand with his checkbook just the other day to cheerfully contribute Federal tax dollars for Toronto's new Sugar Park on their waterfront. I'd like to know-where's the Federal contribution for our Cobourg taxpayer financed West Beach boardwalk extension or are we afraid to ask?

Thank you very much for your valuable perception, ...

2010-08-10T12:21:01.053-04:00
Thank you very much for your valuable perception, Pragmatist.

I also want to post a note of thanks to Armchair QB for providing this valuable perception:
"We forget the federal and provincial grants that went into the creation of the beach, harbour and related areas and choose to only acknowledge our local tax dollars at work. We forget the provincial subsidies available for police services, the federal grants that cover summer jobs. Sorry folks, but dollars from across Canada and Ontario contributed to our local gem, so your argument that it is "ours" doesn't hold water."

Comments on The Burd Report: An uncrowded beach?

Wally and Armchair have a lot of time in their han...

As I said before, I agree Victoria Park should be ...

My son crashed at my place last month while I was ...

And if we could figure out a way to charge people ...

Victoria Park and beach are not a campground; or a...

Interesting comment by Deanno: "No one owns t...

with your outlook, you fit right in here. as the s...

Anyhow... No one owns the beach. No one really own...

Dear Anonymous, Unfortunately we can't play ...

I believe you should consult yourself the minutes ...

Anonymous asserted, "It is important to ch...

I can write a huge book with what you don't kn...

Anonymous - you have come back with a lot of blust...

Armchair it's time you retire and rock on your...

Critical1 arrogantly boasted, "Now about y...

Mucho thanks Armchair QB for this valuable informa...

haha thanks Anon! Your posting brought a good smi...

oh dear Armchair, don't be too hopefull that y...

happy to respond to the still uninformed opinions ...

If Armchair QB believes we received lots of money,...

To Armchair QB-- Transfer payments for operating ...

To critical1, unfortunately you are incorrect in y...

Coburg, Germany was very placid when I was last th...

Ok Wally, here's a not quite original tourism ...

Thank you very much for your valuable perception, ...