Comments on The Burd Report: A guest post

Water is free from the rain barrel only! Your ta...

2010-09-28T12:32:48.805-04:00

Water is free from the rain barrel only!

Your tax bill includes all the expenses of parks including water maintenance for their greenery, flushing of toilets and drinking water in all public parks. Of course your water bill from the Waterfront utilities will come separately, covering the portion you consume at home.

TO CONCLUDE ON THE MAIN QUESTION (paid add from th...

2010-09-01T22:17:17.664-04:00

TO CONCLUDE ON THE MAIN QUESTION (paid add from the newspaper) from Mr. Partridge seeking the mayoral race:

"Scofflaws undermine the rules and make us look ridiculous. Garbage and environment are big issues. How about a daily ‘environment fee’ for non-resident adults? Parking is another big issue. Why don’t we stop non-resident car access to the core on busy days? Force guests to walk in from further away. They’d bring less stuff and maybe visit downtown en route.”

a) Concerning his question of impunity: what are his suggestions? the other mayors failed this question on the job. How does he propose to enforce the law in Cobourg ? (Fire the Police, hire the OPP?)Nothing is said, just a whine. (This is a paid add).

b)Using all parking on both sides of our street is a solution; I dislike to be told there is a problem only, and nothing is being offered;(he needs the Town staff to elaborate?)

c)A lack of hospitality is not my idea on electing the mayor of my Town.

It is an immature vision, which shows a lack of hospitality, presents no solution. His opinion includes no research, no recent information, and has a patriarcal undertone.

All the other commentators had better things to say, even as a gossip.
MY marks: 4.5/ 10

To Armchair BBQ said..."that adequate facilit...

2010-08-31T12:53:42.117-04:00

To Armchair BBQ said..."that adequate facilities, including garbage collections, washrooms or parking can be provided" and the need for "...real studies to indicate the beach visitors will spend any money in the town."

That is all there is to it; the problem and solution, well put.

It appears that town councils have simply rubber-stamped major events to happen there and then fail to monitor the impact that these events have on the park. That's indicative of a deriliction of vision. Certain standards of use should be established before any organization gets a permit, which should be contingent on such organizations leaving the park in the same condition they found it.

Perhaps organizations should put amounts of money in escrow to cover any expense required to repair any damage to the park.

Well... Cobourg today: http:/...

2010-08-31T12:28:32.564-04:00

Well...

Cobourg today:

http://t3.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcRyaKMh_bngI5tk_aKnUJb0ln6kXvfOQOqFSDG-X5SUn48l6BA&t=1&usg=__w0PRDL8eGOIJdDqNjhtmNJs7-Xk=

And the Cobourg the whiners want:

http://t2.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcR3wHzs4lkLNLw7nMpUpXgdmW99MLLON9Gibp5qXEU4-oz_IzM&t=1&usg=__Xp9_K-z3Chh4sXsx79f8KvKLRRU=

My kinda of town. NOT!

Of course it is ridiculous. The tourism bureau ha...

2010-08-31T12:09:43.128-04:00

Of course it is ridiculous.

The tourism bureau have been advertising our beach without any assurance from the town that adequate facilities, including garbage collections, washrooms or parking can be provided.
They have been advertising the beach without any real studies to indicate the beach visitors will spend any money in the town.

It is common for marketing departments to market products that do not exist. It is easier that way. Industry has been doing it for years, just read the Dilbert books or cartoons in the Globe and Mail to check the various ways they do it.

You will notice most of the town tourism publicity shows our beach as empty of people. That is because the photos are generally taken about 6am. The shadows confirm this.

Victoria Park could be left alone without crickets...

2010-08-31T10:35:19.759-04:00

Victoria Park could be left alone without crickets, rackets, balls, or bats. It is a heritage park. You can play in your backyards all those games promoted by clubs. Everyone new in Town brings old ideas, ideas we had before.

Please be aware that the perfect masterplan for this Town, if you want to consult the expensive study), reveals that trees and greenery with benches and a full gate would be appropriate.

I am taking this opportunity to criticize the fountain at the Town Hall. The neolithic fountain has nothing to do with Historic Sites and Monuments Board of Canada. When this will be done properly, our houses in the historic districts will benefit a higher assessment.

Shinjuro keyed, ”Poetry workshops like the one you...

2010-08-31T09:29:04.888-04:00

Shinjuro keyed, ”Poetry workshops like the one you were kicked out of Wally?”

I wasn’t kicked out of any poetry workshops, Shinjuro, because I don’t need to attend them. I’m a real poet, not a poetaster of the Better Poems & Gardens set. This totally erroneous assertion of yours is nothing more than an attempt at smearing, so don't get too righteous about yourself.

Shinjuro keyed, ”This blog has become a tedious soapbox for your arguments and attacks on others opinions you are not interested in civil discussions.”

Oh I get it. When you put forth an opinion, you seem to think no one should disagree with it, and if they disagree with it, then it should be done all milqtoast. As you can see on this forum, my opinion has constantly been attacked by many. This is good. It is an element of democracy. You participated well in the process, except for your choices of analogy, metaphor, simile, which ill-served your argument.

Shinjuro keyed, ”You are only out to bully others into agreeing with you.”

I couldn’t care less about whether anyone agrees with me or not. I am very used to being the black sheep in any grouping. You posit an argument, I reply to it effectively.

Shinjuro keyed, ”Since you cant even spell my name right I wish no further involvement.”

That’s all it takes? How petulant!

GailR keyed, ”As you live so close to the park,...

2010-08-31T07:46:04.558-04:00
GailR keyed, ”As you live so close to the park, Wally, I assume you will be happy to offer up your garden as an overflow picnic area?

I appreciate the generosity of your suggestion, however, the garden outside my place is not mine to offer. Obviously you don’t pay attention to the volumes of people that visit Victoria Park on its busiest days. There is plenty of room available for many many more picnickers, both local or otherwise. Victoria Park has expanded since its origin. It was not designed only for downtown, but for all of Cobourg at that time, including visitors that came off the docks of the day.

GailR keyed, ” And not assume that people have the basest of motives when putting their suggestions forward if you don't happen to agree with them.’

That is a two-way street, and I have been accused of base motives as well.

GailR, if the Town is saying that the parks are fo...

2010-08-31T07:44:38.422-04:00
GailR, if the Town is saying that the parks are for the use of the local population only, then why are they advertising and promoting the waterfront far and wide? Something doesn't add up here.

I find it hard to believe that for year over year the Council's have approved these budgets and staff have prepared the plans with Council input for the attraction of visitors, only to find out that we have in fact been working against our own intentions all along!

Sounds a bit ridiculous.

Wally, you obviously weren't paying attention ...

2010-08-31T00:41:45.955-04:00
Wally, you obviously weren't paying attention last week at COW when there was the deputation to request a neighbourhood park for the Pebble Beach area. Staff were asked for their input and noted that parks were intended for people living in the area and town planning principles recognised that. So presumably Victoria Park was originally planned to serve its neighbourhood. If you have an outdoor area such as Ontario Place designed to draw people from outside the local area, acres of car parking is constructed. I am not speaking for or against our visitors (I loved seeing the cricket game being played last year)but the fact remains that Victoria Park was not originally designed to serve people from outside the downtown area, let alone from other jurisdictions. So can we please keep that in mind when considering the various options. And not assume that people have the basest of motives when putting their suggestions forward if you don't happen to agree with them. As you live so close to the park, Wally, I assume you will be happy to offer up your garden as an overflow picnic area?

Poetry workshops like the one you were kicked out ...

2010-08-30T22:45:25.635-04:00
Poetry workshops like the one you were kicked out of Wally? I enjoy life very much, and I wish nothing but that enjoyment for others. This blog has become a tedious soapbox for your arguments and attacks on others opinions. You are not interested in civil discussions. You are only out to bully others into agreeing with you. Since you cant even spell my name correctly I wish no further involvement. May you enjoy your life to the fullest.

Poetry workshops like the one you were kicked out ...

2010-08-30T22:43:53.059-04:00
Poetry workshops like the one you were kicked out of Wally? I enjoy life very much, and I wish nothing but that enjoyment for others. This blog has become a tedious soapbox for your arguments and attacks on others opinions you are not interested in civil discussions. You are only out to bully others into agreeing with you. Since you cant even spell my name right I wish no further involvement. May you enjoy your life to the fullest.

...Shinjura keyed, “as well as myself being forced...

2010-08-30T20:36:14.035-04:00
...Shinjura keyed, “as well as myself being forced to walk on the sand as the board walk was blocked by tourists speaking french, I even said excuse me in french only to receive a look as if as if I was bothering them.”

The French are not familiar like the English-Ontario. This is a different culture, not the English-Ontario one, not the English-English one either, which involves a different sense of humour, different mannerism etc... Not everyone is polite, woman expect to walk first.

Also visiting a beach and talking to strangers on their beach is not part of their social culture. They are not Americans.

This country has two different worlds, even if French is a language which is also an adstrat (latin word which means to cohabitate with another language).

Shinjura keyed, ”Wally, a tourist is a tourist....

2010-08-30T18:12:30.000-04:00
Shinjura keyed, ”Wally, a tourist is a tourist. The type of tourism being conducted is parasitic, much like a poet is a poet even if he is a bad one.”

Sorry Shinjura, but you are quite wrong to assert that ‘a poet is a poet even if he is a bad one.’ A bad one is called a poetaster, not a poet. They can often be found swarming around poetry workshops.

Shinjura keyed, ”I have witnessed children trying to find space amongst the adult tourists in the water features,”

When I have been there on many many occasions, I have seen swarms of exhilaration squealing around the legs of adults, more often than not, the adults are called parents, and sometimes an adult just thinks to themselves, for a moment, let me have five minutes to feel like a child and do childish things. I’ve sat there for a good half-hour to see the full dynamic of the water feature. It is such fun. Anyway, perhaps you want to pass a by-law, put up a sign saying NO Adults Allowed.

It’s very interesting that when you look at a situation, you see people at their worst, whereas I see them as happy people frolicking in their own happiness.

Shinjura keyed, “as well as myself being forced to walk on the sand as the board walk was blocked by tourists speaking french, I even said excuse me in french only to receive a look as if as if I was bothering them.”

I’ve had that happen to me from time to time throughout my life in diverse communities, in assorted countries in a variety of venues. It comes from day to day living. If that is all you have to whine about then you are having wonderful life, and your misfortune is not to know it.

Shinjura keyed, ”On sunday evening while driving past the park I had to come to a complete stop while several tourists conversed in the middle of the street again looking as if I was causing some great offence to them.”

Oh posh. On Monday afternoon, August 23, I had a white pick-up truck on the grounds of Victoria Park drive around a row of picnic tables, drive right towards me as I was taking photographs of the grounds of the park. I won the game of chicken. An hour later I biked along Queen Street next to Victoria Park, and a car coming the opposite way swerved to intimidate me.

The difference is that your experience involved tourists (how do you know they weren’t locals) whereas mine involved locals. BTW, I bike. I hope you don’t drive your polluting vehicle gratuitously.

Use it or lose it.

Wally, a tourist is a tourist. The type of tourism...

2010-08-30T16:25:33.166-04:00
Wally, a tourist is a tourist. The type of tourism being conducted is parasitic, much like a poet is a poet even if he is a bad one.

On several occasions while walking in the park I have witnessed children trying to find space amongst the adult tourists in the water features, as well as myself being forced to walk on the sand as the board walk was blocked by tourists speaking french, I even said excuse me in french only to receive a look as if as if I was bothering them. On sunday evening while driving past the park I had to come to a complete stop while several tourists conversed in the middle of the street again looking as if I was causing some great offence to them. I do NOT want them to leave and never come back. I want them to enjoy the park however so should locals. The permit proposed earlier would also apply to locals wishing to have large gatherings as well. Thus we share the park not surrender it, or keep it to our selves.

Okie doke, security fences a la Ribfest. Trashy li...

2010-08-30T15:51:24.838-04:00
Okie doke, security fences a la Ribfest. Trashy little cheap seives stretching a bit out into the water to keep interlopers from entering, the fence winds along the entire length of the walkway to Division street where it turns out into the water to prevent interlopers entry there. So where would the fence be open? How many openings to the beach? Who will secure each entry. What time of day will the gence go up and come down, or is this fence to be a permanent feature? C'mon man, detail. Sell your pay-as-you-go idea.

Do you see a lovely drinking fountain, where peopl...

2010-08-30T15:50:52.338-04:00
Do you see a lovely drinking fountain, where people are lined up to go to in our Victoria Park ?

Making money on the week-end could help you to have one llike that in your Heritage Park.

Please see the picture:)

http://www.travelpod.com/travel-blog-entries/heatheravan/2005/1116432480/tpod.html#pbrowser/heatheravan/2005/1116432480/filename=dsc02436.jpg

This is the one I like: "People pay for a b...

2010-08-30T13:17:30.577-04:00
This is the one I like:

"People pay for a bottle of water, which was free from a water fountain;"

was

Actually water is still and will continue to be free from a fountain; just like a public park,or a public beach, will continue to be free for the public to use.

In response to Mr. Keeler from Anon 2. "A FE...

2010-08-30T13:09:22.401-04:00
In response to Mr. Keeler from Anon 2.

"A FEE" to swim on the Heritage beach - I would say, let's only contemplate the principle at the moment of a fee. Details will be worked out later.

THe main idea is a shock, a shock disturbing also my peace of mind: having a fee to a public beach, in order to maintain a historic park.

Why do I support it? Let's keep in mind we want an emerald jewell for Victoria park. I am not talking about mediocrity here. You know like myself, some parks are better kept and cleaner,in Toronto (and I am not bringing the recent sugar beach in the subject).

Plattsburgh beach was overcrowded until there was a fee. In Montreal you pay 10$ to go swimming to their new beach. They complained, they still charge. The beach is well maintained, so is the huge parking lot and St.Helen's island, etc..

I didn't mention the Cobourg west beach. I am simply presenting a theory which would involve control over our main Heritage beach(the words are written on the water thank). Let's focus on your topic emerging from the issues on crowds,tourist,outsiders,strangers,new and old Cobourgers,visitors, beach users, cleanliness and the aftermath from festivals.

I know you have at heart the ones who are deprived. So do I. In many cases, they most deprived ones are heavy consumers of cigarettes, beer and buy expensive munchies, using cabs, expensive nails, etc... It's fine with me. Cigars and cognac is not the Cobourg crowd, and they are annoying in their own way. Don't get me wrong.

I believe a fee for the beach could be a question of choice in a budget. For other it is going to the public centennial pool or becoming a member of the YMCA, going bowling etc..

Perhaps this leads to become the next question on the blog to be discussed: Would taxpayers subsidize the ones who cannot afford their way to the Heritage beach ?
(Student fee-senior fee-handicap fee, todler-fee etc.)Everything could be worked out.

I do thank you for your respect exchanging opinions.

Your suggestion about security fences has already ...

2010-08-30T12:51:14.443-04:00
Your suggestion about security fences has already been adopted by the Rotary Club, with the complicity of the town, for the waterfront festival and the RibFest. We also have a perfect security compound at the bottom of Hibernia Street, courtesy of the Yacht Club that impedes access to the lake. Additionally the Lions and Lionesses have added a complete iron fence round their pavilion in our park.

Your suggestion about increased security patrols in the park and beach is already in effect.

Unfortunately it does not need the feds to tell us how to destroy a community.

In reviewing the discussion regarding "improp...

2010-08-30T12:06:56.518-04:00
In reviewing the discussion regarding "improper" or "unwanted" use of
the public facilities at Victoria Park and the Cobourg Beach it struck
me that all that was necessary was to take cues from the political
agenda being touted by our federal government. For example:

1. Erect a "security" perimeter

This "security" perimeter should be sufficiently intimidating as to keep
undesirables away. In addition, the town could enact a "public space"
security bylaw--quietly and without notice--which could then be
arbritrarily and excessively interpreted and then unannounced again or
something similar. Fines and arrests under this bylaw would generate
additional court fees and legal retainers for locals in order to ensure
local economic development.

2. Hire additional enforcement officials

Whether local bylaw infractions are increasing or not the town should
implement a "law and order" agenda. Increase the number of cops
patrolling the park and beach who would be attentive to possible noise,
garbage, and other "pollution" crimes. Again economic byproducts would
be similar to #1 above.

3. Implement a mandatory "long form visitors survey"

Since a mandatory long form census is, according to our federal
government, so egregrious to citizenship and personal freedoms we should
engage a number of young people to "survey" visitors and ask a number of
questions regarding race, ethnic origins, languages spoken and religion.
Participation in this "survey" would be mandatory and non-participation
would generate fines or arrests. Again economic development revenues as
per #1 above.

4. Build a "state of the art" detention facility

In order to deal with increased clients as per 1,2 and 3 above the town
should build a detention facility in the park. Town operated kiosks
outside the facility would be the only place where approved food and
drink could be purchased by the detained and their visiting families.

5. Scrap license requirements for boaters/fishing

Similar to the sentiments echoed around the "long gun registry" (which
is offensive to the rural way of life and shoved down our throats by
city dwellers) we should declare the Cobourg waterfront a "license" free
zone for fishing and boating. This will have the desired effect of
attracting more "locals" and less apartment/condo dwelling urbanites.

6. Regular political photo-ops

As with recent forays into the high artic to promote our territorial
integrity, local politicians should host as many photo-ops as possible
at Victoria Park and the Cobourg waterfront. This will tell
non-residents that this is "our" park/beach and they should stay away.

As always,

Anonymous ;-)

Anon2 keyed, "People have lots of wheels, ...

2010-08-30T11:46:55.517-04:00
Anon2 keyed, "People have lots of wheels, pick-up trucks, lovely chrome bikes, two, three or four vehicles, all terrain vehicles, boats etc...People pay a fortune to get tattos done; People pay a lot of money to get on the net, acquire another computer, a special screen,dvd's, etc..."

Just to clarify the above, the phrase 'some people', or 'many people' can have and do the above things, but not everyone. There are unemployed families, single parent families, who cannot afford to send their children to swim at the beach. These people may be in a minority, however one thing that virtually every municipality in this country has, is a public park, emphasis on the phrase 'public' which means FOR EVERYONE, not just those that can afford it.

Anon said, "A wristband you paid for to go swimming could be finally not a bad idea."

So tell us how it should be run. Where will the tourists go to purchase their wristband? Will they be sold on the beach or near the beach? Who will administer the wristbands? How many personnel will be required to sell them? How many personnel will troll the beach looking for children and adults without a wristband? How much would you charge?

If you propose charging admission to the beach, then it is incumbant to flesh out the logistic details of the proposal.

Those who want pay per use are adding more administrative expenses and a thicker level of bureaucracy to oversee it. Maintaining free access park is far cheaper and less burdensome.

It could make sense to have a user-fee to go swimm...

2010-08-30T10:43:04.108-04:00
It could make sense to have a user-fee to go swimming.

Firstly, it is shocking for us who are used to freedom, but then, from all the saturated ink on the abuse of the park, it makes sense.

People pay for a bottle of water, which was free from a water fountain;

People have lots of wheels, pick-up trucks, lovely chrome bikes, two, three or four vehicles, all terrain vehicles, boats etc...

People pay a fortune to get tattos done;

People pay a lot of money to get on the net, acquire another computer, a special screen,dvd's, etc...

If you want a park in a pristine condition, how do you expect to get it ?

If you want less dogs with their masters on the beach how do you expect your beach to be cleaner ?

A wristband you paid for to go swimming could be finally not a bad idea. It has to percolate a little...

Fiinally, when we try to add up everything, other sports will have to pay as well their entrance fee: hockey, baseball,bridge players etc... why not ? golfers are paying for their sport.

Anon 2.

Thank you deanno for a very compelling point. An...

2010-08-30T08:28:34.565-04:00
Thank you deanno for a very compelling point.

Another credit for Multisport Triathlon is that its footprint on the grounds of Victoria Park was light, compared to the jackboot imprint left behind by Northumberland Ribfest.

" but I tend to think of that as a positiv...

2010-08-30T03:10:52.319-04:00
" but I tend to think of that as a positive thing whereas from the tone of your post you seem to sneer at this notion."

you detect a sneer from words, good for you but you imagine things.

Comments on The Burd Report: A guest post

Water is free from the rain barrel only! Your ta...

TO CONCLUDE ON THE MAIN QUESTION (paid add from th...

To Armchair BBQ said..."that adequate facilit...

Well... Cobourg today: http:/...

Of course it is ridiculous. The tourism bureau ha...

Victoria Park could be left alone without crickets...

Shinjuro keyed, ”Poetry workshops like the one you...

GailR keyed, ”As you live so close to the park,...

GailR, if the Town is saying that the parks are fo...

Wally, you obviously weren't paying attention ...

Poetry workshops like the one you were kicked out ...

Poetry workshops like the one you were kicked out ...

...Shinjura keyed, “as well as myself being forced...

Shinjura keyed, ”Wally, a tourist is a tourist....

Wally, a tourist is a tourist. The type of tourism...

Okie doke, security fences a la Ribfest. Trashy li...

Do you see a lovely drinking fountain, where peopl...

This is the one I like: "People pay for a b...

In response to Mr. Keeler from Anon 2. "A FE...

Your suggestion about security fences has already ...

In reviewing the discussion regarding "improp...

Anon2 keyed, "People have lots of wheels, ...

It could make sense to have a user-fee to go swimm...

Thank you deanno for a very compelling point. An...

" but I tend to think of that as a positiv...