Comments on The Burd Report: Sometimes Councils do dumb things

There may be lots of Mowats, but none identify FAR...

2010-07-31T11:58:29.766-04:00

There may be lots of Mowats, but none identify FARLEY Mowat.

One wag said we have Field crescent, Fisher St, but how would anyone know it is LENAH Fisher, and not some cousin of Fisher's Dairy.

Not doing the full name is an insult to the person being honoured.

There are Mowat roads, crescents, streets and lane...

2010-07-31T09:47:29.367-04:00

There are Mowat roads, crescents, streets and lanes all over the country. I hope they didn't all create this much anguish!

Didn't Pebble's marry that gravel-voiced s...

2010-07-30T12:28:49.662-04:00

Didn't Pebble's marry that gravel-voiced son of a Beach?

I thought everybody knew that Pebble Beach Drive w...

2010-07-30T12:17:09.188-04:00

I thought everybody knew that Pebble Beach Drive was named after that red headed cutie Pebbles Flinstone. Her dad, Fred, was the developer who first carved out the caves on the bluffs all those years ago.

Yaba Daba Do!

Who was Pebble Beach, and what did they do to earn...

2010-07-30T01:59:13.234-04:00

Who was Pebble Beach, and what did they do to earn the honour?

Cedar Lea? What they do?

and Molly Baker Lane, Glen Watford Drive, Pebble ...

2010-07-29T19:19:12.999-04:00

and
Molly Baker Lane,
Glen Watford Drive,
Pebble Beach Drive,
Cedar Lea Street

Paul Currelly Way; the exception that proves the r...

2010-07-28T14:42:17.925-04:00

Paul Currelly Way; the exception that proves the rule.

"Researcher" said "That is very in...

2010-07-28T11:08:21.216-04:00

"Researcher" said "That is very interesting, but there is no proof that this is what Percy Street in Port Hope was named for. If you could produce Port Hope Town Council minutes where someone laid it all out as you have, then maybe you’d be on to something. Way to pull facts off Wikipedia. I love that because of modern technology people think they can Google the answer to everything."

I did not get my information about Northumberland names, the Percy family and the Dukes of Northumberland from Wikipeadia. I got it much more personally since I went to the University of Newcastle on Tyne where the Duke was the Chancellor.

I also know that in Southern Ontario, King Street and Queen Street are rarely named after Mr King and Mr Queen. In the absence of proof otherwise it is safe to assume that they were named
in colonial times in honour of contemporary British worthies. This also applies to things named "Percy" in Northumberland.

Port hope is doing great lot's of money and an...

2010-07-28T00:18:55.452-04:00

Port hope is doing great lot's of money and and a new harbour cobourg will be in the tank .

for Researcher, I wrote "The concern was that...

2010-07-27T22:08:54.638-04:00

for Researcher, I wrote "The concern was that Percy Street had been named to recognize another family of significance to the town and removing that name would be a slap in the face to that family and a misguided decision."

These are not my words nor my contention, it was what the councillors themselves said at that meeting, almost word for word - I was in attendance at the council meeting and simply brought forth here, that information from the meeting. I do not think that I am corroborating that stance by simply reporting it here. The discussion seemed to be about why council did not vote to rename Percy Street, and that was one of the reasons that was put forth by them, not by me - ok?

As far as Mr Keeler's comment "Aside from that, it's a pity that Cobourg has chosen a policy of never naming a street with a full name" I point to the name recently put on a street near Victoria Park - which now bears the name "Paul Currelly Way" - so much for that claim.

I want to thank Researcher for their edification o...

2010-07-27T19:03:56.145-04:00

I want to thank Researcher for their edification of street names.

Researcher snidely said, "Not very many of the streets are named for developers. Do your research next time."

Wally Keeler had asserted, "Some are the daughters of the developers"

Researcher confirmed this, "Four of the names: Shirley, Ruth, Norma and Barbara were named after his daughters.”

Wally Keeler snidely replies to Researcher, "take a reading and comprehension refresher course."

Aside from that, it's a pity that Cobourg has chosen a policy of never naming a street with a full name; Lenah Fisher Street, or any of the other full names that Researcher has generously and helpfully provided to this blog.

Pragmatist, The important thing to note here is t...

2010-07-27T16:45:03.974-04:00

Pragmatist,

The important thing to note here is the Port Hope Archivist did her job. The Council passed a By-Law stating that any new streets or streets to be re-named had to go by the Port Hope Archivist first. They asked her a question, and she responded to the best of her ability, speaking only for information available in her collection. You are very correct in assuming that the Council seems to be looking for someone to blame.

Trying2makesense,

How do you know that Percy Street was “named to recognize another family of significant” ? Have you done the research and have documented sources that prove beyond a shadow of a doubt who Percy Street was originally named after? The point was that the Archivist, a trained professional, could not find anything to prove this. If you’ve got information maybe you should step forward.

Greg H,

That is very interesting, but there is no proof that this is what Percy Street in Port Hope was named for. If you could produce Port Hope Town Council minutes where someone laid it all out as you have, then maybe you’d be on to something. Way to pull facts off Wikipedia. I love that because of modern technology people think they can Google the answer to everything.

Wally Keeler,

Wally, Wally, Wally. What can I say? Have you gone to the Cobourg Archives, or the Town of Cobourg Planning department to prove your theory?

There is a Fisher Street and a Field Court, commemorating Lenah, and commemorating her family. You’re right, there is no Marie Dressler Street, but there is a house/museum dedicated to her, so perhaps it would be confusing to have a Dressler Street and a Dressler House (which is on King Street). I do believe that one of the newer developments does have a Moodie Street, and if it hasn’t been done yet it is most likely on the list (to be fair, I can’t confirm this right now).

Anne St., - was named for Dr. Morton, who lived on the unnamed street, Anne was his housekeeper. He was reportedly very fond of her, they offered to name the street after him, but he wanted it named after Anne.

Ruth St., Norma St., Barbara St., Shirley St., - “This subdivision was built during the 1950's and 60's. Mr. George Holman, purported winner of the Irish Sweepstakes, bought the land and started the development. Four of the names: Shirley, Ruth, Norma and Barbara were named after his daughters.”

Jane St., - named for Jane Boswell; she was recognized as being a very active member of St. Peter’s Church; was known for her fund raising efforts (very similar reputation to Lenah’s).

Marion St., - named for Marion Burtt, she and her husband co-owned a Lumber Yard.

Margaret St., - named for Helen Margaret (Ruttan), her husband was the publisher for the Sentinel Star, she was also a very active (in fundraising and volunteer work, like Jane Boswell) in the community.

Elizabeth St.,- named for Elizabeth Boulton, she was the first wife of George S. Boulton; she is given the credit for the original design of several (now demolished) “Summer Colony Homes”.

Sandra Cres., Adele St., Veronica St., - streets in newer developments I haven’t looked into yet, but again I would be happy to let you know what I find.

Not very many of the streets are named for developers. Do your research next time, it’s an interesting topic. Your local Library and Archives have great resources.

Pragmatist, The important thing to note here is t...

2010-07-27T16:44:50.578-04:00

"and it would be nice to read something posit...

2010-07-27T14:51:58.450-04:00

"and it would be nice to read something positive."

Oh, for Christ's sakes, give your godamned head a shake, will ya? You want to read "something positive" read either one of the two "FACE PAINTING AT THE MALL GREAT SUCCESS!!!" newspapers in these burgs. Read the friggin' report card on Port Hopes seriously substandard council in the NorthumberlandNews where everybody gets a passing godamned grade. Something positive? We're being somatized to death with Polyana claptrap and you want MORE OF IT. What kind of godamned drugs are you on and when did your godamned prescription run out?

Try, please TRY, to grasp what Barbara Eherenreich meant when she said "Positive thinking is neither".

Both newspapers hereabouts are standing examples of that dictum.

if you just want to read "something positive&...

2010-07-27T14:46:45.716-04:00

if you just want to read "something positive" go to the library and pick up some fiction; why categorize stuff as positive or negative, just look at it as 'ideas' without either label or intent. That way maybe some ideas that seem negative will actually be seen as just an idea in its own right and not be instantly dismissed just for being 'negative'.

Anonymous called: "What about renaming aft...

2010-07-27T12:14:29.058-04:00
Anonymous called: "What about renaming after Canadian playwrights, actors, historians and writers?"

Methinks it might be time to re-visit that issue and make the idea more digestable, rather than the ineffective rhetorical flamboyance of 1988.

What about renaming after Canadian playwrights, ac...

2010-07-27T10:10:27.698-04:00
What about renaming after Canadian playwrights, actors, historians and writers ? Time to break new grounds, and it would be nice to read something positive.
(grunt,grunt, grunt....)

In Cobourg's case, we have: Anne St., Ruth St...

2010-07-27T09:33:39.745-04:00
In Cobourg's case, we have:
Anne St.,
Ruth St.,
Jane St.,
Norma St.,
Adele St.,
Marion St.,
Barbara St.,
Shirley St.,
Sandra Cres.,
Margaret St.,
Veronica St.,
Elizabeth St.,

Who are these women?

Some are the daughters of the developers, but aside from that, what did any of these women ever do that they should have the honour of a street named after them?

Three magnificent women of accomplishment are wilfully ignored by Cobourgers: Susanna Moodie, Marie Dressler and Lenah Fisher come to mind.

Cobourg has a First, Second and Third Street, all downtown, that are available.

To GregH: I do not think that the question to the...

2010-07-26T16:13:10.378-04:00
To GregH:

I do not think that the question to the Port Hope Archivist was regarding the origins of the name Percy, but rather if Percy had any historical significance to the Town of Port Hope specifically.

Percy is the family name of the Earls and Dukes of...

2010-07-26T15:03:21.709-04:00
Percy is the family name of the Earls and Dukes of Northumberland. "Percy" is a major figure in Shakespeare's Henry 4th, part 1.

There are several references to the Dukes of Northumberland and the English County of Northumberland locally. For instance the former Percy Township in Ontario’s Northumberland County was named after the first Duke, and the neighbouring Seymour Township was named after his wife. Alnwick is the name of the castle where the Duke of Northumberland still lives ( in the UK it is pronounced "Anick") and Warkworth is a nearby town in Northumberland.

The hamlet of Newcastle and Municipality of Durham, together with Port Hope were originally all in the United Counties of Northumberland and Durham ( the Port Hope Historical Society is still known as the East Durham historical Society).

I am surprised that the Port Hope Archivist or anybody else in Port Hope apparently did not know the origins of the name Percy.

The comment I heard at the council meeting suggest...

2010-07-26T11:29:58.655-04:00
The comment I heard at the council meeting suggested to me that his name was inserted at the TOP. Is that prominent enough for you?

btw - Merk makes a very good point.

Previous news stories have indicated that the poli...

2010-07-26T11:04:03.669-04:00
Previous news stories have indicated that the policy in Port Hope is to name streets after former mayors (ie. Chalmers Court) and fallen soldiers from WW I and II from the area. These are the names on this list. Interestingly, there is already a Thompson Road in the municipality of Port Hope.

To me, the process in this situation is more of a story than what was decided.

Presenting the facts in context is also important ...

2010-07-26T10:46:34.689-04:00
Presenting the facts in context is also important to good criticism, if you want to do something helpful.

OhhKay
never let facts stand in the way of a good story. This story is that Farley is rlegated to a list. Just what we should do for our famous people. Who are the others on the list? Famous PHers I hope.

You do something helpful tell us who's on the list and then we can see if any of them should be bumped down to accommodate Farley

Just a correction, but a very significant one,of y...

2010-07-26T10:17:55.673-04:00
Just a correction, but a very significant one,of your information, Ben.

Port Hope council voted to not RENAME a street to recognize Farley. The concern was that Percy Street had been named to recognize another family of significance to the town and removing that name would be a slap in the face to that family and a misguided decision. Instead, they opted to put his name on the list of select names for future opportunity to use it properly, rather than as a 'substitute'.

From where I sit, that sounds like a well reasoned decision and I suggest this is unfair criticism. Would you advocate replacing one name by another if the original name has the significance to warrant being there in the first place?

I'm of the opinion that, while criticism is important, it needs to be fair and just to have any meaning, otherwise it's just low-ball whining. Presenting the facts in context is also important to good criticism, if you want to do something helpful.

The best reason not to name a street after Farley ...

2010-07-26T10:14:49.795-04:00
The best reason not to name a street after Farley Mowat -besides the fact that the street chosen, Percy Street, has a perfectly good, historical name already- comes by way of Whittier, California where, prior to Watergate they went on a name-changing spree in honour of their Favourite Son -Richard Milhouse Nixon.

The lesson is simple; never name anything after anybody who's still alive.