Comments on The Burd Report: A suggestion heard from a newcomer

Martin Partridge posted in the local papers, MY...

2010-08-27T13:27:23.892-04:00
Martin Partridge posted in the local papers, MY IDEAS RE VICTORIA PARK & THE BEACH “Enforcement is essential. Scofflaws undermine the rules and make us look ridiculous. Garbage and environment are big issues. How about a daily ‘environment fee’ for non-resident adults? Parking is another big issue. Why don’t we stop non-resident car access to the core on busy days? Force guests to walk in from further away. They’d bring less stuff and maybe visit downtown en route.”

The first two sentences I would dismiss as legal tough talk which caters to the Corktown crowd. It’s a throwaway.

” Garbage and environment are big issues.

No problem for the garbage. More bins and weekend overtime for staff for the really really busy weekends.

” How about a daily ‘environment fee’ for non-resident adults?”

How do you collect it? How do you ascertain whether someone is resident or not? How many staff will be delegated to carry this out. Will this be a summer job? Or special weekends only? Will Northumberland residents get a weekend exemption for Northumberland Ribfest, but others outside Northumberland pay full fee? Where will the checkpoints be?

” Parking is another big issue. Why don’t we stop non-resident car access to the core on busy days?”

Really? Is this a serious question? On busy days, we stop cars to check their residency status? Create a traffic nightmare? And where would the checkpoints be placed? Can’t do that to Provincial Highway 2 aka King Street. So how ya gonna carry this out? How many staff will be involved to carry this out? This is one of the most bizarre ideas I have ever heard.

”Force guests to walk in from further away.”

Don’t ya just love it when a political hopeful is honest enough to use the word “force”. Because I live within half a block of Victoria Park, I assume that I live within ‘the core’, so does that mean that out of town residents who want to visit me will be held up, forced to pay an environmental fee and then walk a block or two just to visit me. I could never imagine treating a guest like that – how inhospitable can you get?

”They’d bring less stuff and maybe visit downtown en route.”

Stuff? Is that the idea. The problem with the park is that outsiders bring stuff. What? Blankets? Umbrellas? Children’s toys? Folding chairs? Coolers? Propane BBQs (They’re legal), Beach balls, Volleyballs? Etc. Yep, the loutsiders will feel the hospitality of this feel good attitude. What’s with the “maybe”? I’d want to be far more certain that the loutsiders do visit downtown and buy stuff, before I’d set residency checkpoints on all streets leading to “the core.”

Check a bit of Cobourg history. Victoria Park was privately owned in 1874, but was always accessible to the public. That is the legacy of this park. Mr Partridge would have us diminish this legacy with his suggestions. No Vote for this.

Uh...Ben... For those of us trying to follow this...

2010-08-12T14:11:30.109-04:00
Uh...Ben...

For those of us trying to follow this....just exactly which 'anonymous' are you replying to?

I count at least three.

are you sure about the province setting the rates?...

2010-08-12T13:22:04.216-04:00
are you sure about the province setting the rates? how do you know that? Did you say earlier that the town isn't selling licences, and if so how are they getting even that $25?

what a load of bollocks anonymous the people issui...

2010-08-12T10:45:41.966-04:00
what a load of bollocks anonymous the people issuing the license get paid to issue licenses - it's their job. Until we pay the bureaucrats on a piecework system don't play games with how much it costs to issue licenses. Besides if you had read previous posts it's the province that sets the rates so we are stuck with the low rate.

and it probably cost us $45 all told to issue it, ...

2010-08-12T10:28:07.799-04:00
and it probably cost us $45 all told to issue it, great business sense there Mr Burd

you see, that's what's missing in all of these arguments, sense, common sense, business sense, sense of any kind. Why don't any of these idea people get off their duffs and do what they are criticizing others for not doing? They all want business to be the great saviour and provide all the gravy but none of them are willing to risk a nickel to have a go at showing us how its done. Noise-makers and Hypocrites!

If hot dogs are that lucrative howcum none of the ...

2010-08-12T06:57:42.898-04:00
If hot dogs are that lucrative howcum none of the downtown merchants want to get involved? Perhaps the 10 weeks of summer is not worth it to them but them let someone else have a chance, even if the license is only $25.00. It is $25.00 that the Town never had before

SUMMER BUSINESS? Vendors: a hot-dog vendor in this...

2010-08-12T00:34:44.883-04:00
SUMMER BUSINESS?
Vendors: a hot-dog vendor in this town could make over $35,000. a summer and will pay $250. in taxes.Put them all on the beach and you will see a disaster.

Is it fair to someone who has a building, staff, expenses, high taxes: no.
----DBIA paid $80,000. in business taxes under Joan Chalovich. What do they get in return? They should get at least their sidewalk ploughed in the winter.----

Now, if restaurants serve mediocre food and are closed at meal time this is another issue.

CONSEQUENCES?
A lot of shoppers are taking the 401 to see diversity and variety, choice and quality.

Everybody heard of the Buffalo suicidal wings, Montreal Pool-room steamed hot dogs, fun EATING in diners, etc... They are opened late and they are all POLITE, INTERESTED TO PLEASE, welcome to our Historic Town, etc...

Simplicity and quality are not in this Town. We opt for modern kitch and are pretentious about it. What about small intellectual cafés with interesting newspapers,(English, Spanish and French) magazines,journals,(no music or sport news imposed) with a good coffee, strawberrie pies and real home made cakes, let people talk and do their own things, with their computers and friends. Everywhere I travel I found tons of them, except here in Cobourg, the no-fun zone.

Now, as far as Canada day is concerned, it has nothing but duck art ! shopping and eating trash. I think it's time to compete and have other festivals: less organized and with more fun, will include our HISTORY and be FREE. Dancing contests, dancing in costume d'epoch,taking pictures in them, flying kites, cake contests, pie contests, free sand castles with amateur picture contests, holding apples between parners, making water colour on the spot, folk songs: guitar playing, French and English songs, guitar playing, history of the costume, plays,re-enactments, dart games,chow-chow sold by individuals, the history of the bread !

People will go shopping if they find the Town interesting in history, welcoming and clean. Our parks have a lot of annuals which is costly and should have flowering shrubs like before and more willows for shade (skin cancer is a problem in Town). We have an awful long way to go in this Pleasantville, we understand only two colours : black and white !

"Some people will always be poor by choice". (Bob Lucas)

Funny how the business community, despite being pr...

2010-08-10T11:45:19.162-04:00
Funny how the business community, despite being proudly and loudly capitalist, gets up in arms, demanding government intervention, any time it looks like there's a little honest competition going on.

Their alleged hatred of regulations evaporates rather quickly in the face of upstart new enterprises that threaten the old ways of doing business.

If somebody running a hot dog cart threatens the viability of local restaurants, then they don't have much of a business to start with, do they? And how many of them close down promptly at 5 pm, just when people get hungry?

You can't have it both ways, my friends. If you're in business, then stay open. Even a socialist like me recognises that if a business is closed, it's not making any money at all.

It's time the DBIA and the Chamber of Commerce took a flying leap back into the past where they belong, along with all the other Victorians who think they can dictate conditions for the rest of us.

Let's bring on the free market, free wheeling capitalism they all claim to support. Then we'll see who is really willing to work to earn their profits.

to Ben - I was not aware that the town is not issu...

2010-08-09T23:18:55.391-04:00
to Ben - I was not aware that the town is not issuing H&P permits. I do recall that the cost of these permits was reduced from a hefty sum to a nominal amount, on instruction from the province who said the town could not charge a fee that would balance the cost of business issue. Until then, the DBIA had no concern even on that score, but when the town reduced the fee to, I believe, $20, (on instruction from the province) that created a significant imbalance and everyone who seeks to earn an income is sensitive to unfair practices, including employees and employers alike. It is this imbalance that was articulated in the response by the DBIA to the town's request for their input on the issue. If the town has made a decision to minimize or avoid issuing permits, and I don't know that they have, but if they have, it may well be because they are aware of the impact such an imbalance has on business everywhere in town, and is likely the reason the fees were what they were before that.

After all, we taxpayers are always screaming that business isn't paying their fair share but we're not willing to acknowledge that business can only pay more if it makes more. It's the reality of economics, my friend and even though we'd like to have it both ways, we can't, and I think you probably agree, reluctantly I'm sure.

Pragmatist wrote "How can Mr. Schumann be so ...

2010-08-09T23:03:37.293-04:00
Pragmatist wrote "How can Mr. Schumann be so confident that it would be rejected, unless he feels assured that the town would not go against the wishes of the DBIA"

I'll repeat "I suggest that the reasons behind the current state of waterfront commerce lie elsewhere and that research into those reasons would support that suggestion."

I have been present at council meetings and heard first hand, the discussions and arguments for and against open commerce on public property, which includes the beach. The town council has discussed this issue before and made the decision some years ago with respect to all public properties, not just downtown. As I said, do the research before you jump to and promote inaccurate conclusions. That serves no purpose. It is the existing policy that makes the rejection essentially a foregone conclusion.

Anyone who thinks this is a bad policy can freely petition council to reopen the debate and make a case for changes, and I suggest the folks who are disturbed by that policy should be the first to take up the torch and march on town hall. After all, they show little confidence in council to make the 'good' decisions, especially when they do not coincide with their own.

On this same topic, during those policy discussions, the town asked the DBIA for its input and the concern about inequitable business costs was the only one returned in the response, because the general membership felt that was a legitimate business issue and they had been asked for their opinion and input. That, my friend, is what I explained at the beginning and bears repeating since you missed it the first time, and the second time.

Mr. Schumann wants us to think that the town opera...

2010-08-09T09:54:47.347-04:00
Mr. Schumann wants us to think that the town operates without considering the viewpoint/lobby of the DBIA. He is quite confident, however, that "A simple written request addressed to the Town for permission to conduct commerce on public property at the waterfront would provide a written response from the municipality as to the rationale for its rejection."

How can Mr. Schumann be so confident that it would be rejected, unless he feels assured that the town would not go against the wishes of the DBIA. Further, although he says that the DBIA is only concerned about the fact that taxes/assessment fees would not be paid by the venders. Yeah right, just like doctors are only concerned about providing quality health care. There is always one other concern: MAXIMIZING PROFIT.

Hundreds of other towns in Ontario would kill to have Cobourg's problem of "too many tourists."

Straightshooter- I must confess, as you mentioned,...

2010-08-09T09:42:18.667-04:00
Straightshooter- I must confess, as you mentioned, I did not throughly investigate the community when choosing to bring my family here. Though... in my defense, I thought this superior race thing had been finally dealt with some seventy years ago; that my children would not be subject to this disgusting mindset.
As someone else mentioned, it would be nice if you could post the "whites only in Cobourg" sign on the 401 so future transplants do not make the same mistake I did.

to Manfred The fact remains somebody has convinced...

2010-08-09T09:01:35.125-04:00
to Manfred
The fact remains somebody has convinced Council that issuing H&P licenses is an unfair situation, because the people who pay full taxes to do business in Town are shortchanged by the H&Ps. But if the regular business people either close on the weekend (or part of it) and refuse to sell in the park, or try to, then the Town is losing an opportunity to make money from H&P licenses.
Besides if the Town kowtows to the business lobby and refuses to issue H&P licenses why bother having them?

to Wally The law of unintended consequences kicked...

2010-08-09T08:57:39.860-04:00
to Wally
The law of unintended consequences kicked on my little comment.
I believe you were not under the influence of anything other than free-thinking when you took your wals in the park, or at any other time - just convince straightshooter!

Deb O wrote, in part, “which would alleviate DBIA ...

2010-08-09T08:54:32.163-04:00
Deb O wrote, in part, “which would alleviate DBIA concerns”. I’m very interested in Deb O’s contention that the DBIA has concerns about this, and the evidence that supports her statement. I cannot recall a published statement from the DBIA that indicates such official concerns do in fact exist.

As I attempted to explain in my first comment, to the best of my knowledge, in the past, the DBIA has only expressed concerns with respect to the implications of the Hawkers and Peddlers Permit fees and how they impact the cost of doing business for the parties concerned.

It would be interesting to get a response from the Beach Hut operator on Deb O’s suggestion, but my own view leads me to believe that operating 3 separate stations versus 1 in what is essentially the same business location would lead to greater overhead and likely result in higher prices for the same product we have now. While it may reduce wait times, probably not a strategic business move.

Let's make it abundantly clear: I WAS NOT H...

2010-08-09T08:47:11.675-04:00
Let's make it abundantly clear: I WAS NOT HIGH ON MARIJUANA NOR ANY OTHER INTOXICATING SUBSTANCE WHEN I MADE MY PARK OBSERVATIONS NOR MY SUBSEQUENT COMMENTS.

Ok WK is a smoker and Straightshooter is a coward,...

2010-08-09T08:27:04.849-04:00
Ok WK is a smoker and Straightshooter is a coward, let's leave it at that!

straightshitter takes a deep inhale of powerful ma...

2010-08-09T08:02:26.609-04:00
straightshitter takes a deep inhale of powerful marijuana and asserts, "who ever made the beach issues into racial issues, big city folk who know nothing else."

I know that I am not big city folk. I was born in this small town 63 years ago, raised in this small town. So the big city folk must be Anita Steins, or Steven MacLaughlin or Pete Fisher. So straightshitter, can you support your contention that these individuals are "big city folk who knowing nothing else?"

C'mon, give us the straight shit you spineless pseudononymous coward. I take ownership of my perceptions, I'm not ashamed or embarrassed like straightshitter who feels compelled to make accusations like a coward.

straightshitter is a coward. That assertion is easily provable.

straightshitter asked, ""I notice tha...

2010-08-09T07:49:52.517-04:00
straightshitter asked, ""I notice that the majority of The Outsiders" so I ask again, what's he bin smokin'?"

Of course straightshitter has to remain pseudononymous, otherwise they wouldn't be able to make public accusations of criminal activity on my part. The veil of cowardice lies heavy on straightshitter.

My observation stands. I am a daily eyewitness to Victoria Park. Oh, by the way, I have sat down and talked with the visitors. I didn't ask them to show me their identity papers -- they told me where they are from. Here is a little video I made of the issue last year.

deanno said "How can a town, only one hour aw...

2010-08-08T22:23:47.789-04:00
deanno said "How can a town, only one hour away from Canada's largest economic multicultural engine, can believe it has the right to live in a time long ago that most feel ashamed about"

that looks like it smears the whole town with the same brush, but his other statement "racist views of some of the locals that live around here" doesn't jive with his first one. confuses the hell out of me.

to make it clear, I said "the problems at the beach all seem to stem from poor and bad behavior by anyone who is prone to such behavior, period." I'm talking about the problems that have been listed by those who do the complaining. if you don't think of them as bad behavior, I wonder what fits that description for you.

as for "How can a town... believe it has the right to live in a time long ago that most feel ashamed about", as far as I can tell, people usually move to areas that appeal to them, including the general attitude that seems to prevail. It does not mean that there are no other views or attitudes there, even though they might not be the dominant ones. There is such a thing as freedom of expression which does not require anyone else to agree with it, but still means they are free to express themselves within the bounds of the law.

Your free to hold your views and opinions about all of these things, just like the others who you disagree with, and you chose to move here anyway. the issues you are bothered by have been around since before you arrived so its not like you had no idea of the problems, right?

WK said "It seems that "straightshooter&...

2010-08-08T21:27:15.996-04:00
WK said "It seems that "straightshooter' failed to graduate from reading and comprehension 101 or grade 12 Ontario. Their dimming wit doesn't seem to notice that it is Pete Fisher, Anita Steins and Steven MacLaughlin who assert that it is outsiders" Of course he left off WK's comment.

Straightshooter noticed the comment from WK which reads "Every day when I go to the park, I notice that the majority of The Outsiders bear a dna configuration that is visibly different from The Locals."

note his own words "I notice that the majority of The Outsiders" so I ask again, what's he bin smokin'?

The present person with the Canteen in Victoria pa...

2010-08-08T15:56:13.673-04:00
The present person with the Canteen in Victoria park has a lease which gives them exclusive foods sales in the park. They are compensated by organizations who hold events there and also sell food. The present lease was signed some time ago before the park became popular and when the Town was just trying to get anyone to take on food concession there as it was a losing proposition. Not sure when the lease expires. Tourism is a business and should be run as such. People expect when you go to a tourist spot to have many attempts at legally getting into their pockets with a smile on. Disney for one is a good example of once you get the people there as to how to make revenue from it. Cobourg is halfway there. They already have the people coming. Now make it pay!

Deb O off-topically posted, "Funny, out of...

2010-08-08T13:57:43.294-04:00
Deb O off-topically posted, "Funny, out of 9 comments on this thread, only 2 of them are remotely related to the topic: allowing vendors to sell their products on the beach. That bugs me as much as the tripe posted by the multitude of anonymouses.
Both habits detract from the quality of the discussion."

I guess Deb O can comment off-topic but anyone else doing it bugs her, but then again, if a commentator attaches an on-topic comment they are exempt, sooooo, following Deb's lead, I'd like to add that vendors in the park is OK with me, including vendors who couldn't care less about anyone's religious concerns aka stupidstitions.

Funny, out of 9 comments on this thread, only 2 of...

2010-08-08T13:16:34.844-04:00
Funny, out of 9 comments on this thread, only 2 of them are remotely related to the topic: allowing vendors to sell their products on the beach.

That bugs me as much as the tripe posted by the multitude of anonymouses.

Both habits detract from the quality of the discussion.

As to vendors selling sunglasses, I don't care, but a couple of well placed hot dog carts would make me very happy. They could be run by the folks who operate the beach hut, which would alleviate DBIA concerns, provide a few more jobs, and make it easier for people to get a meal without long line ups.

They could even sell vegan hot dogs to satisfy that bunch, like they do in Toronto. There are also ways to process the meat to satisfy religious concerns so anybody could enjoy them. I'm talking halal and kosher in case some of our small town neighbours are wondering.

What could be wrong with that?

'straightshitter' redundantly claims, &...

2010-08-08T11:27:59.819-04:00
'straightshitter' redundantly claims, "WK is so intent on making it a race issue, he can't see the bbq's and open cooking fires for the grass (weed, y'know)."

I saw the bbqs and campfires. I went through the park the next morning. There was no damage done to the park lawn. Compare this with The Locals via Ribfest, who had done far more damage to the park lawn -- see photo documents of this assertion HERE.

The slanderous assertion of criminality -- "grass (weed y'know)" is easily made by spineless cowards hiding behind pseudonyms.

straightshitter demands proof of racism. OK, then straighshitter should provide proof of their assertion that I was stoned on weed when perusing the park.

Elementary justice demands that the accused has the right to face their accuser, but 'straightshitter' doesn't believe in natural justice because they are too cowardly stand by their own words. straighshitter reminds me of the islamaniac idiots who demand their women testify in court while concealing their facial identity.

Comments on The Burd Report: A suggestion heard from a newcomer

Martin Partridge posted in the local papers, MY...

Uh...Ben... For those of us trying to follow this...

are you sure about the province setting the rates?...

what a load of bollocks anonymous the people issui...

and it probably cost us $45 all told to issue it, ...

If hot dogs are that lucrative howcum none of the ...

SUMMER BUSINESS? Vendors: a hot-dog vendor in this...

Funny how the business community, despite being pr...

to Ben - I was not aware that the town is not issu...

Pragmatist wrote "How can Mr. Schumann be so ...

Mr. Schumann wants us to think that the town opera...

Straightshooter- I must confess, as you mentioned,...

to Manfred The fact remains somebody has convinced...

to Wally The law of unintended consequences kicked...

Deb O wrote, in part, “which would alleviate DBIA ...

Let's make it abundantly clear: I WAS NOT H...

Ok WK is a smoker and Straightshooter is a coward,...

straightshitter takes a deep inhale of powerful ma...

straightshitter asked, ""I notice tha...

deanno said "How can a town, only one hour aw...

WK said "It seems that "straightshooter&...

The present person with the Canteen in Victoria pa...

Deb O off-topically posted, "Funny, out of...

Funny, out of 9 comments on this thread, only 2 of...

'straightshitter' redundantly claims, &...