tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-23948057.post5819739966859067519..comments2010-01-09T22:35:38.433-05:00Ben Burdhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/06372169478978720740ben@eagle.caBlogger23125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-23948057.post-59971428337183212662010-01-09T12:04:54.994-05:002010-01-09T12:04:54.994-05:00You&#39;re catching on there Deb. When radical statements or comments without some form of prima facie evidence are proffered, they should be challenged for elaboration, to put some context to the point which can be bounced around among those interested in the discussion. Oddly though, your own reaction to such challenges is one of withdrawal, and never produces a cogent response, simply dismissal.<br /><br />In this case, I&#39;ll reserve my elaborations for if and when this topic comes under broader discussion. Anything I might say at this point would simply be taken out of context and that would contribute little in the way of developing a wider discussion. But I&#39;m encouraged by your request, nevertheless.<br /><br />As for your first question, yes, I do support proportional representation, in all areas. Consensus should always be the goal in public affairs, when multiple interests, including conflicting interests, are involved. Our winner-take-all system almost always has the effect of marginalizing a significant portion of the affected population. That sets up the potential for enormous dissatisfaction and the pursuit of simply overthrowing those in power, usually without a viable alternative. Without a plan for proper representation of all interests, such an overthrow simply replaces one deficiency with another of the same kind. It wastes so much effort and resources in the see-saw process, everyone losses much more than they need to. What kind of system is that?<br /><br />It&#39;s a system I want to see vastly improved.manfred schumannnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-23948057.post-6081641212008703362010-01-05T16:17:30.749-05:002010-01-05T16:17:30.749-05:00Some questions for you now Manfred. Do you favour proportional representation in provincial and federal politics?<br /><br />And locally, what are the criteria for candidates you believe would be helpful?Curious Debnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-23948057.post-43350598445693666262010-01-04T15:26:05.908-05:002010-01-04T15:26:05.908-05:00We&#39;ve been round this track before, but if we keep doing the same things in the same way, where is the opportunity for a different result? Same pool of voters, same source of candidates (may need some clarification), same system, where&#39;s the opportunity for improvement?<br /><br />In my view, something has to change before anything different can result. We don&#39;t want to change the voter pool, you don&#39;t want to modify the candidate source, so the only option is to change the system. Don&#39;t want to change the system, change the candidate factor. Don&#39;t want to qualify them, change the voter factor, but you deem that to be a step back. So what&#39;s the best direction to go from here?<br /><br />Now I&#39;ll repeat my suggestion - qualify the candidates - make the list of choices as good as possible by trying to ensure that they meet well-defined criteria. Of course, there&#39;s no question that the whole concept hinges on those criteria, but it is a possible starting point to begin the changes that are essential if we are to achieve the election of better candidates.<br /><br />Perhaps the &#39;sacred cows&#39; of democracy are not as deserving of their immunity as they appear to have been, given the ever expanding complexities that rule the muddy world of government and politics. Just look at the changes in even the smallest of organizations, and how they now set qualifiers for those who wish to participate. Why then is it so difficult to see that the system as it is can no longer produce the best results?manfred schumannnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-23948057.post-26229629415039167902010-01-02T12:08:41.380-05:002010-01-02T12:08:41.380-05:00The blame lies with the stupid and selfish voters who don&#39;t know their ass from their armpits.<br /><br />It&#39;s the sheep who like shiny things, who don&#39;t think about the issues, or the future, and who happily buy whatever snake oil is on offer. <br /><br />It&#39;s the people who think Wally Mart is good for the local economy; that all developers are truly commited to the town; that taxes should always go down while services expand; and that playing sports guarantees a wholesome life.<br /><br />It&#39;s the ones who believe you can get something for nothing, and if you wish hard enough, your dreams will come true.Deb Onoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-23948057.post-32704623830012392472010-01-01T17:53:15.031-05:002010-01-01T17:53:15.031-05:00Can&#39;t wait to read your &quot;assessments&quot; of the next crop of politicians elected by &quot;our system&quot; as they exercise their powers. We certainly know you&#39;re not impressed by the current lot. One thing, I am curious about where you lay the blame, as it were, for the failure in electing &#39;better&#39; candidates this time &#39;round.<br /><br />If you feel I&#39;m picking on you, don&#39;t; it&#39;s your colourful commentary of all things political that just gets my juices flowing and I just want to know what&#39;s behind all of that frustration, and what you would like to see happen to improve the situations, other than simply replacing &#39;people&#39;. I really do want to gain some insight on this.manfred schumannnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-23948057.post-30718246708880536392009-12-31T18:18:44.311-05:002009-12-31T18:18:44.311-05:00Again, demanding qualifications for candidates could and would disqualify many fine contenders.<br /><br />For instance, educational achievement. My dad was a town councillor, then Reeve, and from that, was the town&#39;s representative, and Chair of the Ganaraska Conservation Authority, an organization he continued with long after his political career.<br /><br />He worked as a volunteer for many other organizations like the Chamber of Commerce, United Way, the Kinsmen Club, Dressler Foundation and the committee to restore Victoria Hall to mention just a few.<br /><br />His education? Grade Eleven. Did that stop him from making many positive contributions to our community? Not for one minute, but I am willing to bet the first damn qualification imposed on candidates would be a mandatory university degree. <br /><br />So I am sticking with my position. It&#39;s educated voters we need, they will pick the right candidates.Deb Onoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-23948057.post-4962777991076132492009-12-31T14:22:43.227-05:002009-12-31T14:22:43.227-05:00Pretty clear to me too, and laudable to boot. But having the right to run and win does not automatically mean one is capable of fulfilling the obligations presented by the position, particularly when that position commands a share of the public funds, obtained through taxation, with that expectation well understood from the beginning. Such shortcomings just end up creating endless dissatisfaction among the voters who THEN demand better decision-makers and better results ..... and round and round and round we go... all in the name of &#39;rights&#39;, too often with no connection to adherent responsibilities. Thanks go to the indiscriminate champions of &#39;rights&#39; that come with no such baggage, for perpetuating the mindless folly.manfred schumannnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-23948057.post-92114735478279818182009-12-31T13:30:11.833-05:002009-12-31T13:30:11.833-05:00I have a question for our first commenter, Wally K, although I may regret asking it.<br /><br />He says that Mutton is the best &quot;female councillor&quot; since Lenah Fisher and I have puzzled for days as to why he put it that way.<br /><br />Are there different criteria for women in public office? <br /><br />Why categorise councillors by their sex? How does that matter?<br /><br />Do hats have anything to do with it? I remember Lenah was famous for her never ending displays of fancy hats. Mutton&#39;s version was a very Victorian upswept hairdo, although she has modernized her look since early days.<br /><br />Is that why councillor and later Mayor Joan Chalovich wasn&#39;t a winner in Wally&#39;s competition? She didn&#39;t wear hats and had a short haircut without a sweep to it.<br /><br />Just wondering what the special rules are for the ladies.Deb Onoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-23948057.post-10930167407784741062009-12-30T19:46:11.572-05:002009-12-30T19:46:11.572-05:00<i>&quot;In a democracy, any citizen has the right to run for political office...&quot;</i> -- <b>Deb O</b><br /><br />What&#39;s so difficult to understand with that Manfred?Wally (Big Bad Bully Buy) Keelernoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-23948057.post-87112801014735738402009-12-30T15:28:01.297-05:002009-12-30T15:28:01.297-05:00I&#39;d be in favour of one term for councillors. What evidence is there that multiple terms produce superior local government ? And, every citizen interested in the position would have a some chance at sitting. Heck, there are turnips on Cobourg council that are only ripe for turning into the soil.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-23948057.post-79545472927970805682009-12-30T11:54:44.812-05:002009-12-30T11:54:44.812-05:00Manfred, I respect your opinions too, but I am befuddled by your continuing request for me to explain myself.<br /><br />I am certainly not running for elected office, so I feel no need to do that. My opinions are just my opinions, no big deal and no better or worse than anyone else&#39;s.<br /><br />To elaborate on my last post, though, I will say that I believe<br />demanding formal qualifications for candidates is a slippery slope. <br /><br />I fear that next will come a demand for qualified voters, meaning exclusions for some of us. These could be based on considerations such as religion, country of origin, educational level, etc. and would certainly send our version of democracy back to the dark ages.<br /><br />If I could wave my magic wand to improve our system, I would impose the ability and knowledge to think critically and rationally on every citizen. <br /><br />If all of us possessed and used those &quot;qualifications&quot;, we might elect better quality politicians.Deb Onoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-23948057.post-1267564329009975652009-12-29T20:08:49.057-05:002009-12-29T20:08:49.057-05:00I guess all of the people leaving a post here could run for Mayor and see what it is all about. <br /><br />Glass HouseAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-23948057.post-40034579144789743642009-12-29T18:11:05.562-05:002009-12-29T18:11:05.562-05:00Right on Deb.Wally (Big Bad Bully Boy) Keelernoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-23948057.post-70597077659088199112009-12-29T17:34:59.271-05:002009-12-29T17:34:59.271-05:00Deb wrote - &quot;Free and open, that&#39;s our system&quot;<br /><br />Based on your many comments over the years outlining your disappointments with those that are elected under that system, it seems that you would be open to a revision or two that would produce better officials. Why would &#39;mandatory qualifications&#39; for such important positions be a backward step if they actually produced better candidates, ones that would better measure up to your expectations? Should we be willing to accept potential candidates that have a track record of corruptive behaviour, or someone who simply spends more than they could ever hope to muster for payment? It is certainly apparent that &quot;our system&quot; has not succeeded in producing the quality of officials that you would prefer.<br /><br />I have respect for your opinions, yet they leave me puzzled as to what you actually want to see happen and how that would be realized. Without a clear idea of where you want us to go, it is hard to see how we are to get there.manfred schumannnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-23948057.post-26016055685989115552009-12-29T13:57:07.808-05:002009-12-29T13:57:07.808-05:00In a democracy, any citizen has the right to run for political office, with or without formal <br />qualifications. <br /><br />It is up to the voters to make their choice after learning about the candidates&#39; positions and backgrounds.<br /><br />If we imposed requirements on candidates, would that not imply a return to the past when it was decided by white property owning men that only they could vote?<br /><br />Women and tenants only got to vote in this last century, that&#39;s a battle we don&#39;t want to fight again.<br /><br />Free and open, that&#39;s our system.Deb Onoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-23948057.post-23924394214776468442009-12-29T10:32:52.407-05:002009-12-29T10:32:52.407-05:00Off on a tangent, I would like to hear what the good folk think on what makes a good mayor in the first place, and what qualifications should be mandatory to even be considered for the position. Many jobs, from fryer-attendant up, usually come with the requirement of some sort of resume outlining pertinent details of the applicant&#39;s suitability for the position, yet the top job, and all the other decision-making ones at the policy table at town hall have no such requirements. Go figure!manfred schumannnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-23948057.post-19936024414431686012009-12-29T08:09:02.160-05:002009-12-29T08:09:02.160-05:00Pedantic Dolt is # 1 in Cobourg !Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-23948057.post-1026717569904870562009-12-28T20:08:20.036-05:002009-12-28T20:08:20.036-05:00Maybe the question &quot;Should Peter Delanty run again?&quot; will generate confusing responses. For instance many of the people who answer &quot;don&#39;t care&quot;, or even &quot;Yes&quot; may believe that it is Delanty&#39;s right to run again should he wish, even though they may not feel this is in the best interests of Cobourg, and would vote for somebody else if a quality candidate were to stand.<br /><br />&quot;Would you vote for Peter Delanty if he ran again: Yes or no?&quot; might generate an entirely different result.A Cobourg voternoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-23948057.post-41489439966464933902009-12-28T15:22:16.173-05:002009-12-28T15:22:16.173-05:00Highway of Heroes; <b>PRZT!!</b><br /><br />MacDonald-Cartier Freeway; <b>PRZT!!</b><br /><br />I prefer the very apolitical <b>401</b> <br /><br />The sound of Merklin&#39;s opinion entering the blogosphere: <b>PRZT!!!!</b>Wally (Big Bad Bully Boy) Keelernoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-23948057.post-90486755802301878482009-12-28T15:13:34.794-05:002009-12-28T15:13:34.794-05:00A court jester has to be a fool. Yes, Deb, I&#39;m up to it. Here&#39;s the <a href="http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_xRNkKmg53L0/Sbq-PJmPhKI/AAAAAAAABAU/aajK6EjJjVM/s1600-h/Spooner+joker.jpg" rel="nofollow">easiest target</a>Wally (Big Bad Bully Boy) Keelernoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-23948057.post-45710139701214141452009-12-28T13:07:17.503-05:002009-12-28T13:07:17.503-05:00Dear sweet gawd, Ben, save us all from on-line polls -cheeky fun or otherwise. It was 62,000 signatures on an on-line poll that desecrated the name of The MacDonald-Cartier Freeway. The Highway Of Heroes petition was signed by all four of The Marx Brothers, Osama bin-Laden, George W. Bush and Lassie. People in Peru signed it -people who couldn&#39;t find Canada on a map if they tried. Politicians just like Delanty and every other cloying jerk that never saw a motherhood idea he or she didn&#39;t love jumped on this military sponsored and inspired idea like it was a free for all. Nobody had the guts to speak out about it or say NO! because they knew the overly-emotional, heart on their sleeves uber-patriot legionaires would have the tar-n-feathers boiling up and ready before last call. If there were any truth, the godamned highway would be called The Highway Of Expendable Political Capital -which it is, even today for the latest poor kid being paraded down the road for a completely unnecessary autopsy just so&#39;s the three-pack a day crowd of Dick Little&#39;s can one-up each other at the corner table at noon sharp tomorrow and be the first to say they were there.<br /><br />On-line polls; they aren&#39;t worth the paper they&#39;re not printed on.Merklin Muffleyhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/05850284624604652178noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-23948057.post-47142634543685850532009-12-28T12:46:08.600-05:002009-12-28T12:46:08.600-05:00Is there a position for court jester? That would certainly bring some much needed levity to Council meetings, which are full of boring and predictable ass kissing pomposity.<br /><br />I would heartily endorse that idea and nominate Mr. Wally Keeler for the position. He is certainly capable of bringing some life to that group, and would look quite fetching in jester costume.Deb Onoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-23948057.post-38277847591091647422009-12-28T11:36:13.752-05:002009-12-28T11:36:13.752-05:00Miriam Mutton is the best female councillor since the days of <a href="http://www.flickr.com/photos/wallykeeler/4221949639/sizes/l/" rel="nofollow">Lenah Fisher.</a>Wally (Big Bad Bully Brute) Keelernoreply@blogger.com