Can we have it both ways?
A mighty fine comment:
"This site is packed top to bottom with complaints about Council, yet now it is discussing giving Council a pay raise."
This comment appeared as #25 in response to the post of yesterday wherein the BurdReport argued for some truth in the matter of Cobourg Council's workload and the attendant plea from Councillor Mutton to pay the council more money.
This site has faithfully chronicled the failings of the current Council and its members, as well as congratulating them from time to time on good stuff. But perhaps the last post, about the plea for more money failed to show one of the underlying complaints about the issue, the way that incumbents whine about those who consider the job should be paid more and self servingly play to ignorant electors. Jeff Lees in Port Hope did it this week by suggesting a pay freeze for Council, causing Councillor Turck to wryly observe, "It must be an election year!".
Another commenter made the point that perhaps, because all those who tell the public that they are serving the public want us to believe that then there should be no honorarium - let them serve for nothing. Another commenter made the point that because there are people on Council of independent financial means the pay should be set at $50,000 and then all other income be deducted from that - innovative.
The BurdReport's position is very clear - both the system of governing; the coordinator system, and the composition of Council is faulty. So here is the plan:
"This site is packed top to bottom with complaints about Council, yet now it is discussing giving Council a pay raise."
This comment appeared as #25 in response to the post of yesterday wherein the BurdReport argued for some truth in the matter of Cobourg Council's workload and the attendant plea from Councillor Mutton to pay the council more money.
This site has faithfully chronicled the failings of the current Council and its members, as well as congratulating them from time to time on good stuff. But perhaps the last post, about the plea for more money failed to show one of the underlying complaints about the issue, the way that incumbents whine about those who consider the job should be paid more and self servingly play to ignorant electors. Jeff Lees in Port Hope did it this week by suggesting a pay freeze for Council, causing Councillor Turck to wryly observe, "It must be an election year!".
Another commenter made the point that perhaps, because all those who tell the public that they are serving the public want us to believe that then there should be no honorarium - let them serve for nothing. Another commenter made the point that because there are people on Council of independent financial means the pay should be set at $50,000 and then all other income be deducted from that - innovative.
The BurdReport's position is very clear - both the system of governing; the coordinator system, and the composition of Council is faulty. So here is the plan:
- Council should be restructured into committees of the whole for three of the four weeks in a four week cycle. Planning, Financial and Operating committees should meet weekly and feed all the issues into a Council meeting that meets every four weeks.
- The Councillors should be paid at the rate of $30.00 per hour for every hour spent on Cobourg council business. This is meant to compensate councillors giving up their evenings.
- The meetings should take place in the evenings to allow the public to attend, This comment was emailed to me, by a sitting member of Council, and is very telling,"Consider that to reduce staff overtime, advisory committee meetings are more and more being moved to day time or reduced in number. This directly impacts the ability of citizens to participate." Perhaps less staff should be assigned to meetings then the public and council could make their own decisions, after all aren't they supposed to set policy rather than take direction?
- The Mayor should be actively seeking new members of the public to sit on Council, most incumbents see newcomers as a threat to their existence.
- Term limits must be imposed, A successful councillor needs to regenerate, and I will promise you if the unseated councillor is introspective they will look back and see their faults.
- The Council term must be reduced to two terms of four years
- Elect half of the members of Council each election
- Elections must be held every other year
These suggestions may not satisfy those readers who complain that all everybody does is bitch and fail to make constructive criticism but they are a start!
The latest comments that Blogspot will not accept:
Wally Keeler has left a new comment on your post "Can we have it both ways?":
Wally Keeler disses the Northumberland News Report Card on Cobourg's town councillors.
The latest comments that Blogspot will not accept:
Wally Keeler has left a new comment on your post "Can we have it both ways?":
Wally Keeler disses the Northumberland News Report Card on Cobourg's town councillors.
17 comments:
Ben:
The 8 points in your plan seem very reasonable and on the whole workable.
Points 7 & 8 (elections every 2 years for half the council) are under the control of the province and probably won't happen quickly, but all the other points could probably be adopted if only the local politicians would agree.
Just the fact that Ms. Mutton brought up the subject of a raise for council members BEFORE the election is reason enough for me to vote for her (again). Whether or not a raise is justified is another argument. To some I would say yes but others maybe not so much. I guess it's for the voters to decide.
A comment on Town staff work hours:
In my workplace we were paid a salary, not an hourly wage. If we needed to attend events outside working hours, we got the equivalent number of hours off at a later date, usually of our own choosing. There was no overtime pay in the picture. Not ever.
Couldn't (and shouldn't) Town staff operate the same way? I'm sure they are on salary too, and the rules are different in that category from those paid hourly.
There is also no law that states work hours must be 9 to 5 weekdays. On a Council night, staff could work l pm to 9 pm as their standard work day.
Have we devolved to the point where town staff dictate their own employment policies instead of management?
When you pay peanuts, you get monkeys for the job.
It should be a 3 year term, well paid, on a yearly base (nothing can be done within a year)
Minimum $25,000. / (Insurance etc...education allowance etc..)
Candidates should study and be questioned on policies, by-laws and management.
Other people who volunteer for committees as well.
Enough Canadian dopes. In Europe people are more educated, publish books, are well articulated, conduct press conferences, make follow-ups with their constituency, etc...
PUT A SUGGESTION BOX AT THE TOWN HALL...
Ben, if you had to pick just 1 of your ideas, and it had a good chance of being implemented, in some recognizable form, which one would it be?
DISCUSSION : The Councillors should be paid at the rate of $30.00 per hour for every hour spent on Cobourg, etc....
An idea which may not work. This is a HIGH PROFILE job, not a factory job. Secondly,your councilmen receive his packaging on a Thursday, he makes phone calls, study by-laws, THEN he goes to meetings, contacts staff, writes letters etc... a yearly rate (like Toronto) is reasonable.
The only item i would say that would effect change, that is we would have educated councillors, less staff time spent at meetings and more public participation would be the change from the coordinator system to the committee system.
I AGREE with Ben on the style of the committee system. The only staff member who I see fitting is a Cobourg lawyer. (Coburg Germany and other Towns have a lawyer sitting on council days.) (Engineer could be contracted out.)Everyone on council vote, so they can be well informed asap, and the mayor could question the lawyer in front of the Townspeople.
In my view it would be a mistake to have a smaller council. This is already very small.
BEN IS OFFERING THE KEY TO EXIT OUR CLOSED AND SHUT STYLE OF GOVERNANCE.
Without a new COMMITTEE style, the taxes are going up, the services are limited and without criticism. (Law and order are enforced the same way.) IT is a challenge !
But it is imperative to change !!!For more transparency and PARTICIPATION, better services to the whole community and less taxes.
TAKE OUR TOWN BACK FROM FRIVOLOUS HANDS and closed minded people.
Wally Keeler disses the Northumberland News Report Card on Cobourg's town councillors.
You have certainly grabbed my attention, Anonymous, and just for my edification, can you please provide some detail on how you can see taxes coming down while services become less limited, under ANY system. Perhaps you could cite some examples of where this has been achieved, and by what means. This is cutting edge thinking and I'm beside myself with anticipation.
You know, whenever election talk starts warming up, the most discussed topics are "taxes" and "change", and of course, the savvy politicians pander to that. "Change" as an objective, is bogus because nothing remains unchanged; everything gets shuffled around and looks a little different, but the promised results don't often materialize. Why? Because it simply costs yet more than before and you know what that means, eh!
If you really want to affect the way things happen or are done, you have to define exactly what you want to be done, and that, my friend, you probably can't do. Go ahead, give it a try. Define it, in terms that, if you were the one to be acting on your definitions, you would actually get the results you demand or are trying to achieve, and remember the financial implications, since you want to reduce the taxes at the same time.
So, please open our eyes and tell us the what and how of your 'change' imperative; we can only be very grateful for your participation.
Ben explains very well the committe style to do business in this Town is very wrong.
1. Councillors vote on all items of their agenda, but do not understand all the issues. This is not favouring your pocket book, nor keeping our taxes stable, nor to make them come down.
2. A consequence of this defective system is that people protest through petition to get something in Cobourg.
--Normally your contact with a councillor should be enough. It is worth less and less every year. Why ? Your committee system divides people (and their issues). You don't have the power to control your expenses either.
3. Let's discuss an exemple: the garbage tag. You pay quite a lot more for a tag, you have very little in return. This shouldn't be. Please allow me some details:
a) Do you realize you cannot dispose easily of : old rugs, shoes, clothes, cushions, etc..
b) Do you realize you lost the heavy pick-up on the curbside, during the summer?
(You are given a voucher to go to the dump, yes, nice ! Pay for your petrol, take the time off, use your pick-up truck if you have one.) -- What about if you become invalid, pregnant, ill? What aboaut if you have a flood, a small fire, small construction projects ?
c) Do you know that while you are keeping all the extra objects in your house, it becomes a fire hazard? Safety issue ? Hello !!
d) What about the purchase of tags for the people working out of Town? Do you realize it "overtaxes" their schedule? Probably not. Those people know what is common sense, believe me, they are not trying, they know !
This is only ONE exemple. Sad enough a lot of people here are enslaved to a so-called service, they sit back and relax !!!
Do you attend the Town's budget time ? What do you understand of it ? Probably nothing, because the system is intimidating, rather than user-friendly.( Ben knows that as well. ) -- Also because your packaging at budget time is so thin, it does not make sense for you to ask question.
Believe me, Angus Read's time is well over. When the system will be reversed he will probably say: Well, it took all that time to find out our tricks, we had a lot of fun spending their money !
what's with all you whiners? All you can do is chew and grunt about stuff you know nothing about. These councilors do plenty and you need to cut them some slack. They deserve better.
Memo to Anonymous: the garbage tags fall under the County's jurisdiction, it's not a lower tier municipal service at all.
The County took over waste management several years ago, so blame them for how it works.
I think Wally Keeler understands woman's issues on Cobourg council. I know he likes to be represented by both gender on council.
Somehow something will have to be done in the future to accept working with them, and help them to work better among themselves. (Chalovich Grafton-Resident locking horn with Loken Cobourg-Resident). That mayor never thanked her officially for all her many contributions, on the contrary, she took side with the local paparazzi against her.
This is another proof that our mediocre and vindictive committee system used their discretionary power policy attempting to gag her, ostracize her etc.while she was trying to share with us expenses, or other items disclosed to the public. In fact, she had a plan to reduce expenses by 1 million dollars and the press never published her plans.
I had the pleasure to work with her, on her private committee, with other professors of UofT and I know she spent a lot of her personal monies, to beautify the Town, keep it clean, keep the taxes down, and have the citizens better served, like in Coburg, Germany. It was truly fun to work with her.
Thank you Wally Keeler to value the cause of woman !
Tags on bags: I agree it is a county issue. Somehow, Cobourg mayor could have agreed differently. He did not. He is a yesman. I liked it better before when I enjoyed more freedom with my time.
TO the anonymous who takes the side of the councillors.
I am sorry, but I disagree with you. I have seen better. I never received a letter, nor see a breath of wind coming my way.... under this council. A lot of others are sharing my view.
Be positive and state your case instead of being negative,through this form of forum.
Especially in a little Town, it is important to be civil, as it stimulates ideas and help to develop others.
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