A guest post
submitted by Wally Keeler
Martin Partridge posted in the local papers, MY IDEAS RE VICTORIA PARK; THE BEACH “Enforcement is essential. Scofflaws undermine the rules and make us look ridiculous. Garbage and environment are big issues. How about a daily ‘environment fee’ for non-resident adults? Parking is another big issue. Why don’t we stop non-resident car access to the core on busy days? Force guests to walk in from further away. They’d bring less stuff and maybe visit downtown en route.”
The first two sentences I would dismiss as legal tough talk which caters to the Corktown crowd. It’s a throwaway.
” Garbage and environment are big issues.
No problem for the garbage. More bins and weekend overtime for staff for the really really busy weekends.
” How about a daily ‘environment fee’ for non-resident adults?”
How do you collect it? How do you ascertain whether someone is resident or not? How many staff will be delegated to carry this out. Will this be a summer job? Or special weekends only? Will Northumberland residents get a weekend exemption for Northumberland Ribfest, but others outside Northumberland pay full fee? Where will the checkpoints be?
” Parking is another big issue. Why don’t we stop non-resident car access to the core on busy days?”
Really? Is this a serious question? On busy days, we stop cars to check their residency status? Create a traffic nightmare? And where would the checkpoints be placed? Can’t do that to Provincial Highway 2 aka King Street. So how ya gonna carry this out? How many staff will be involved to carry this out? This is one of the most bizarre ideas I have ever heard.
”Force guests to walk in from further away.”
Don’t ya just love it when a political hopeful is honest enough to use the word “force”. Because I live within half a block of Victoria Park, I’ll have to tell my Guelph-resident friend, James Clarke, former Ontario Supreme Court Justice, that he will be forced to walk a block or two to visit me on certain days of the year. I could never imagine treating a guest like that – how inhospitable can you get?
”They’d bring less stuff and maybe visit downtown en route.”
Stuff? Is that the idea. The problem with the park is that outsiders bring stuff. What? Blankets? Umbrellas? Children’s toys? Folding chairs? Coolers? Propane BBQs (They’re legal), Beach balls, Volleyballs? Etc. Yep, the loutsiders will feel the hospitality of this feel good attitude. What’s with the “maybe”? I’d want to be far more certain that the loutsiders do visit downtown and buy stuff, before I’d set residency checkpoints on all streets leading to “the core.”
Check a bit of history. Victoria Park was privately owned in 1874, but was always accessible to the public. That is the legacy of this park. Mr Partridge has diminished this legacy with his suggestion. At least Gil Brocanier is known to have dived off the pier in his youth, along with many other young men over the long history of Cobourg harbour.
47 comments:
"The time has come..." The Wally said
"...to speak of many things."
"Of shoes and ships and sealing wax...and condominium Kings."
"And why this board is boiling hot
Where'ere intemperence rings,
And whether those whose with views opposed
Will feel The Wally's sting."
The problem seems to be one of parasitic tourism(tourists who use free local amenities to capacity while bringing in all required consumables, thus contributing little or nothing to the local economy, and leaving behind their waste.) Large events held at the park must require permits from which the funds can be attained to cover the extra garbage/bathroom facilities, and manpower. These events also cause people to contribute to the local economy.
The park is for people to use and always should be. However some control is needed to ensure the enjoyment of all. So why not require groups larger than ten to purchase a permit, and only sell a certain number of permits per weekend first come first serve. this way the Smith's can have their family reunion, the out of town visitors can have their Sunday picnic, and other resident can use the park. The town will also be able to place extra facilities as needed.
Again... where do these peeps come up with these ridiculous ideas??
Wally- you need to run for the mayorship and scare the living begeezes out of the members of that Baystreeter Klan!
June July August = 92 days.
Permits for groups larger than 10 is absurd. Why set up another no zone layer of bueaucrazy with its attendant administrative expenses for such a minute problem. There is an alleged crowding problem only on the Civic Holiday weekend; three days out of 92. Get real.
The phrase 'parasitic tourism' is a disgusting way to describe fellow Canadians.
Mayoral candidate, Martin Partidge's, ideas would reinforce and exacerbate such us/them divisiveness.
The phrase 'parasitic tourism' is a disgusting way to describe fellow Canadians
The term can be applied to anyone who travels to a place only to use its free amenities, and it is the reason the sign "washrooms are for paying customers only" exists. It is something we all have done at one time or another, just not to such a large extent.
If 92 days are a problem I dont think it should be ignored especially when there is talk of widening streets as far away from the park as Abbot street to allow for parking, or when the emergency services cant get close enough to the beach because of the mass of cars to do their job. If there are 92 days everyone wants to be in the same spot then it should deserve some attention. Remember last summer, one of the suggestions was to charge admission to the park THAT is absurd. At least a permit allows lone individuals or small groups to enjoy the park and gives large groups a suitable place to put their garbage, and go to the bathroom, as well as be advised of park rules and bylaws. Their other alternative if the dont want a permit, they can find another place. Either way the problem in the park is off the agenda.
Can someone from from the Pay Per Use crowd please explain what essentially is a public park?
As a child I grew up beside a City park, played in that park with my friends(locals and non-locals) for 17 years, and found about life in that very same park. I ask because if I believe what some in Cobourg feel- that we should charge for admittance- then I should pay the City of Vancouver compensation for that time in my life. And if any from the PPU crowd can remember what it was like to be a child, I would hope they might contribute funds to the City they grew up in to cover the costs of all the garbage they left behind -you know... before we were all told it is "not good to litter".
No, it is not "parasitic tourism".
It is a council and town tourism department who have for some years spent lots of money for brochures etc. that say "Come to Cobourg" and "Come to our lovely beach".
The town's campaign has be very successful and people come. The problem is that the town has made no preparations to receive a large number of visitors in terms of providing the necessary mass facilities.
Equally many residents of the town resent the visitors, because "they are in our town". There is an additional resentment because many of the visitors are not white, and a segment of Cobourg sees multiculturalism as a problem rather than as a bringing an extra dimension to their lives.
The first solution should be for the town to stop advertising Cobourg.
If the town is not prepared to stop advertising the town it will have to provide adequate faculties and start a campaign to persuade Cobourgers that
1. Diversity is good
2. If we advertise for visitors we should welcome them and not expect them to suddenly make all their purchases in our town.
Unfortunately reality kicks in, because the town is never going to stop advertising, and is never going to have a campaign to promote acceptance of diversity.
So we are going to spend the next few years proposing all the wrong solutions such as visitor free zones, payment to go downtown, unnecessary road widening, signs that say “NO”, and continuing to abuse visitors who only came because the town asked them to.
Shinjuro keyed, "The term [parasitic tourism] can be applied to anyone who travels to a place only to use its free amenities, and it is the reason the sign "washrooms are for paying customers only" exists.
If I were you, I'd be ashamed of your analogy; Victoria Park is NOT a washroom. Mayor Peter Delanty referred to Victoria Park as "the crown jewel of Cobourg."
Back in the 1800s Victoria Park was still in private ownership, however, the people of Cobourg were deliberately given free access to it's serene ambiance. When that park was handed over to the public domain, the same condition applied: free access. THAT is the legacy of our Crown Jewel.
Immigrants from Ireland, often sick ones, were dropped off on our pier. Many camped in Victoria Park, before moving on. The same during the Great Depression, when jobless men were on the move across the country looking for work, and often opened their blanket to spent a night or two in Victoria Park.
More recently, the debris of the babyObaby boomers all stoned on Trudeaumania and unprecedented prosperity, were hitch-hiking across this great nation, free, I mean free. [No one asking me, "Papers please" as I always heard in travels through assorted dictatorshits.]
Hippies In The Park! Unwashed Long-Haired Hippies! Outsiders! Loutsiders! The Korktown Klan stiffened their spines, tucked in their chins and squacked. [Squawk is a duck being stepped on. Squack is the sound of unbridled entitlement and priviliege being stepped on] It took a cute little old lady in a wide brim hat on Town Council to talk a bit of sense into The Boys. A curfew by-law for the park was defeated.
You see Shunjuro, that park has a multiple life-long legacy: free access.
That it should be analogized as nothing more than a mere washroom for paying customers is an idea to flush out of your mind and clean your bowl of such thoughts retiurning. The legacy of Victoria Park is NOT: Free Access For Cobourgers, But Not to Others.
I would like Cobourg to be known for it's hospitality, not for it's grouchiness, for its selfishness. Victoria Park is not an exclusive place. It is an inclusive place, where all Canadians are welcome, indeed, where any visitor in the world can drop in and pass on.
Shinjuro's suggestion, as well as mayoral candidate, Martin Partidge, regards their fellow Canadians as nothing more than a teat to be milked. That sort of human characteristic should remain where it belongs -- in the marketplace. Victoria Park is a reprieve from that culture.
Victoria Park is Cobourg's crown jewel. Life comes and goes, ebbs and flows, dims and glows, wins and woes -- life is such a verb. Victoria Park is a strong sturdy noun, wherein all kinds of verbs can play.
Greg H keyed, "The problem is that the town has made no preparations to receive a large number of visitors in terms of providing the necessary mass facilities."
That should be all there is to it. And limited to only a handful of days every year. No big deal. Very good commentary.
Now we know where one mayoral candidate stands on the issue of Victoria Park - residency checks.
Shunjuro keyed, "If 92 days are a problem..."
Please re-read. I said the problem exists only for "three days out of 92." Three days.
Shinjuro keyed, "is talk of widening streets as far away from the park as Abbot street to allow for parking, or when the emergency services cant get close enough to the beach because of the mass of cars to do their job.
Those are just growing pains in a growing world. Grow up. Adjust. Accomodate.
Greg, the reason a business advertises is to bring customers to buy their product. The reason a town/city advertises is to bring people to spend money, thus boosting the local economy, and creating jobs for its citizens. People who use only a towns free offerings and bring everything they need for their visit while pushing tax paying locals out of the way, and causing the town to spend more money, do nothing good for the local economy. regardless of their race, religion, or other. The funds have to come from somewhere to pay for this. Do you want it to come from your pocket in the form of tax dollars, or theirs in the purchase of a permit for their large gathering. Which also is applies to locals wishing to do the same. Just go to any club that rents a facility and tell them you want to use their hall for an event and plan to bring everything for the event with you, so you want the hall for free, and they can deal with the garbage from that event. See what the say.
And how much money did the Triathalon pay to use the Park today?
Nothing i would wager. Cobourg likes them because of the prestige it brings, so we get to subsidize the triathletes
Shinjuro keyed, "Just go to any club that rents a facility and tell them you want to use their hall for an event and plan to bring everything for the event with you"
Victoria Park is not a club. Clubs are private entities. Victoria Park is mandated as a public place of free access for all. There are so very few spaces remaining that provide free access to all. That is crucial for families that have little income, or been laid off, and they saved up enough just to get to Cobourg and enjoy a family picnic once a year. Let`s squeeze out the poor from enjoying our hospitality.
Check out the fee the trailer park charges and ask if it is enough. Keep in mind that Cobourg`s trailer park is a 5-star facility that should be charging 5-star fees.
I have to take issue with open heart Wally's refugee camp vision for Victoria Park ("Give me your tired, your poor, your huddled masses yearning to breathe free etc.").
First of all, a Crown Jewel can be tarnished unless the Town is prepared to commit sufficient taxpayer resources to maintain it to a high standard or user fees are imposed to make up the difference.
Secondly, I think Victoria Park's vocation needs to be re-evaluated. It is hardly an ordinary public park where relaxation rules as happy citizens frolic amidst the grass and trees. The Town in recent years has turned Victoria Park and even the Beach on occasion into Event Central, with all sorts of pseudo-festivities promoted all summer long, usually accompanied by thumping music. No peace and quiet there for town residents seeking relaxation. But no one should be surprised when out-of-town visitors arrive in large numbers putting a strain on facilities and damaging the Park (as Wally has noted recently re RibFest).
Thirdly, despite Wally's promotion of unrestricted unpaid access to the Park and Beach for all and sundry all of the time, I fail to see why it would be somehow immoral or unsavoury to charge for the privilege of using our Beach to defray costs, should the need arise at some future point.
We are charged admission to swim in the Victoria Park Centennial Pool, aren't we? What's the difference between a swim there and a swim at the Beach? Other public beaches like Presqu'Ile and Sandbanks charge admission fees. I believe the RibFest charged admission to its fenced off sector of Victoria Park recently, not to mention the charges to use other parts of Victoria Park such as Trailer Town. If someone doesn't want to pay to use Victoria Beach, there's always the West Beach.
Of course there would be questions of logistics involved in enacting a Beach charge, but not likely insurmountable. Paid access to the Beach only would be feasible, not to the Park itself. A Beach charge would only be necessary for crowded summer weekends. A wristband like at rock concerts could be handed out on entry. The charge should be for everyone, not just visitors to avoid intrusive questions re residency (Note, Cobourg residents are already de facto paying to use their Beach through town parking meters when they want to park nearby).
Wally, I did not call the park a washroom. Please dont put words in my mouth solely for the sake of creating a launching pad for your attacks against me, and others because I offered a solution that you do not agree with. This blog is not supposed to be a means to prove how abusive you can be when engaging in a discusion.
Critical1 keyed, “despite Wally's promotion of unrestricted unpaid access to the Park and Beach for all and sundry all of the time, I fail to see why it would be somehow immoral or unsavoury to charge for the privilege of using our Beach to defray costs”
For the past century it was never a “privilege” to use Cobourg’s beach. It was a birthright for generations of Cobourgers to access that beach. No matter how poor any family may be they always knew their children could frolic on the beach on any day of the week just like every other children.
Critial1 keyed, “ We are charged admission to swim in the Victoria Park Centennial Pool, aren't we? What's the difference between a swim there and a swim at the Beach? ”
The pool has heated fluoridated water and does not receive health department warnings about bacteria levels. The beach is available 24hrs7days whereas the pool is not. The beach is natural, organic whereas the pool is a machine maintained and confined pool. The beach can handle over a thousand people simultaneously whereas the pool does not. The pool is reserved for special interests at certain times of the day or day of the week, whereas the beach is not.
Critical1 keyed, “Other public beaches like Presqu'Ile and Sandbanks charge admission fees.”
Those are provincially-run and maintained beaches. They provide a multitude of services that Cobourg beach does not. Northumberland Ribfest did not charge admission, however, they did encourage a donation at the entrance.
Critical1 keyed, “Of course there would be questions of logistics involved in enacting a Beach charge, but not likely insurmountable. Paid access to the Beach only would be feasible, not to the Park itself. A Beach charge would only be necessary for crowded summer weekends.”
Ok. So how will this be done? How will the beach be fenced off during those few hours or days when it`s required. How many entry points where the fee will be collected? How many staff required to put up the fence then take it down, and how many staff to collect and record the entry fees? Is it worth all this trouble?
Critical1 keyed, “`…Wally's promotion of unrestricted unpaid access to the Park and Beach for all and sundry all of the time...”
It is not my promotion. It is the agreement the town of Cobourg made when it received the land. It is a condition that has held for generations. It is a trust held in perpetuity.
To read all these comments, I'm not sure what the issue(s) is (are). Is it overuse, abuse, misuse, destructive use, illegal use, restricted use, unrestricted use, yet one thing is for sure, it is much used. It seems that it took visitors to come and appreciate it, to wake up the local population to its usefulness, and now we lament the apparent loss of its exclusive use. It seems a foregone conclusion that the bygone days of a wideopen space where one could roam with little contact are a thing of the past. So is paradise!
Shinjuro wrote "..while pushing tax paying locals out of the way"
Is that an actual observation or just speculation? If it is indeed fact, we have a much larger problem than what this discussion is about. I have not tried to "wrest" a spot in the park from anyone else, but if that's what is happening, there needs to be some serious thinking on the part of the town. I'm more inclined to think that maybe there is a reluctance (which has not been there before) among some of the locals, to simply claim a small space to enjoy a day at the park or beach, just like always. I don't think that qualifies as being pushed out of the way.
There is a phrase that comes to mind, "use it or loose it", even though it's not entirely indicative of the situation. It does seem to suggest what a few locals are feeling now. The simple answer is - use it just like you always have, and enjoy it, just like you always have; what's to stop us from doing that? - little or nothing, really.
One of the "crown jewels" of all the public parks in Canada is Stanley Park in Downtown Vancouver. Within the park there is pay parking much like there is pay parking lots within and adjacent to Victoria Park. But... if you can find parking near the park , are able to take transit, or even muster the ability to walk , you will NOT be charged to visit this beautiful green space. Nor will you be asked to take your garbage home or even criticized for the size of your party,colour, or cultural believes. Just over a 100 years ago, the forefathers of Stanley Park made a 1000 year commitment to all citizens, from all parts of the world, that the glorious Stanley Park and beaches will remain free for all to enjoy.
And then there is Cobourg... tsk, tsk, tsk...
Ben.... Multisport Triathlon typically pays a venue fee ( up to $4k according to their website). Whether Cobourg charged them such a fee or not, I do not know.
It is a terrific event and yes I do think it somewhat "prestigious"; but I tend to think of that as a positive thing whereas from the tone of your post you seem to sneer at this notion.
Shinjuro keyed "..while pushing tax paying locals out of the way"
trying2makesense asked "Is that an actual observation or just speculation?
I live a half block away from Victoria Park. This provides me the opportunity to enjoy the park almost daily. That includes the heaviest weekend -- I spent most of the day meandering in the park. Sometimes I speak with visitors.
There was still room for lots of locals to enjoy themselves. I never encountered beligerance from any of the visitors, but I have encountered such from a couple locals that accosted me.
Shinjuro is simply demonizing the visitors, previously alluding to them as "parasitic" tourists who should pay to use the park according to the same rules as applied to a pay toilet.
I find Mr. Partridge's suggestions both bizarre and disturbing for many reasons, particularily for someone wanting to be Mayor of any town. I wasn't aware of his position until I read it here on the Burd Report. Thank you Ben!
" but I tend to think of that as a positive thing whereas from the tone of your post you seem to sneer at this notion."
you detect a sneer from words, good for you but you imagine things.
Thank you deanno for a very compelling point.
Another credit for Multisport Triathlon is that its footprint on the grounds of Victoria Park was light, compared to the jackboot imprint left behind by Northumberland Ribfest.
It could make sense to have a user-fee to go swimming.
Firstly, it is shocking for us who are used to freedom, but then, from all the saturated ink on the abuse of the park, it makes sense.
People pay for a bottle of water, which was free from a water fountain;
People have lots of wheels, pick-up trucks, lovely chrome bikes, two, three or four vehicles, all terrain vehicles, boats etc...
People pay a fortune to get tattos done;
People pay a lot of money to get on the net, acquire another computer, a special screen,dvd's, etc...
If you want a park in a pristine condition, how do you expect to get it ?
If you want less dogs with their masters on the beach how do you expect your beach to be cleaner ?
A wristband you paid for to go swimming could be finally not a bad idea. It has to percolate a little...
Fiinally, when we try to add up everything, other sports will have to pay as well their entrance fee: hockey, baseball,bridge players etc... why not ? golfers are paying for their sport.
Anon 2.
Anon2 keyed, "People have lots of wheels, pick-up trucks, lovely chrome bikes, two, three or four vehicles, all terrain vehicles, boats etc...People pay a fortune to get tattos done; People pay a lot of money to get on the net, acquire another computer, a special screen,dvd's, etc..."
Just to clarify the above, the phrase 'some people', or 'many people' can have and do the above things, but not everyone. There are unemployed families, single parent families, who cannot afford to send their children to swim at the beach. These people may be in a minority, however one thing that virtually every municipality in this country has, is a public park, emphasis on the phrase 'public' which means FOR EVERYONE, not just those that can afford it.
Anon said, "A wristband you paid for to go swimming could be finally not a bad idea."
So tell us how it should be run. Where will the tourists go to purchase their wristband? Will they be sold on the beach or near the beach? Who will administer the wristbands? How many personnel will be required to sell them? How many personnel will troll the beach looking for children and adults without a wristband? How much would you charge?
If you propose charging admission to the beach, then it is incumbant to flesh out the logistic details of the proposal.
Those who want pay per use are adding more administrative expenses and a thicker level of bureaucracy to oversee it. Maintaining free access park is far cheaper and less burdensome.
In reviewing the discussion regarding "improper" or "unwanted" use of
the public facilities at Victoria Park and the Cobourg Beach it struck
me that all that was necessary was to take cues from the political
agenda being touted by our federal government. For example:
1. Erect a "security" perimeter
This "security" perimeter should be sufficiently intimidating as to keep
undesirables away. In addition, the town could enact a "public space"
security bylaw--quietly and without notice--which could then be
arbritrarily and excessively interpreted and then unannounced again or
something similar. Fines and arrests under this bylaw would generate
additional court fees and legal retainers for locals in order to ensure
local economic development.
2. Hire additional enforcement officials
Whether local bylaw infractions are increasing or not the town should
implement a "law and order" agenda. Increase the number of cops
patrolling the park and beach who would be attentive to possible noise,
garbage, and other "pollution" crimes. Again economic byproducts would
be similar to #1 above.
3. Implement a mandatory "long form visitors survey"
Since a mandatory long form census is, according to our federal
government, so egregrious to citizenship and personal freedoms we should
engage a number of young people to "survey" visitors and ask a number of
questions regarding race, ethnic origins, languages spoken and religion.
Participation in this "survey" would be mandatory and non-participation
would generate fines or arrests. Again economic development revenues as
per #1 above.
4. Build a "state of the art" detention facility
In order to deal with increased clients as per 1,2 and 3 above the town
should build a detention facility in the park. Town operated kiosks
outside the facility would be the only place where approved food and
drink could be purchased by the detained and their visiting families.
5. Scrap license requirements for boaters/fishing
Similar to the sentiments echoed around the "long gun registry" (which
is offensive to the rural way of life and shoved down our throats by
city dwellers) we should declare the Cobourg waterfront a "license" free
zone for fishing and boating. This will have the desired effect of
attracting more "locals" and less apartment/condo dwelling urbanites.
6. Regular political photo-ops
As with recent forays into the high artic to promote our territorial
integrity, local politicians should host as many photo-ops as possible
at Victoria Park and the Cobourg waterfront. This will tell
non-residents that this is "our" park/beach and they should stay away.
As always,
Anonymous ;-)
Your suggestion about security fences has already been adopted by the Rotary Club, with the complicity of the town, for the waterfront festival and the RibFest. We also have a perfect security compound at the bottom of Hibernia Street, courtesy of the Yacht Club that impedes access to the lake. Additionally the Lions and Lionesses have added a complete iron fence round their pavilion in our park.
Your suggestion about increased security patrols in the park and beach is already in effect.
Unfortunately it does not need the feds to tell us how to destroy a community.
In response to Mr. Keeler from Anon 2.
"A FEE" to swim on the Heritage beach - I would say, let's only contemplate the principle at the moment of a fee. Details will be worked out later.
THe main idea is a shock, a shock disturbing also my peace of mind: having a fee to a public beach, in order to maintain a historic park.
Why do I support it? Let's keep in mind we want an emerald jewell for Victoria park. I am not talking about mediocrity here. You know like myself, some parks are better kept and cleaner,in Toronto (and I am not bringing the recent sugar beach in the subject).
Plattsburgh beach was overcrowded until there was a fee. In Montreal you pay 10$ to go swimming to their new beach. They complained, they still charge. The beach is well maintained, so is the huge parking lot and St.Helen's island, etc..
I didn't mention the Cobourg west beach. I am simply presenting a theory which would involve control over our main Heritage beach(the words are written on the water thank). Let's focus on your topic emerging from the issues on crowds,tourist,outsiders,strangers,new and old Cobourgers,visitors, beach users, cleanliness and the aftermath from festivals.
I know you have at heart the ones who are deprived. So do I. In many cases, they most deprived ones are heavy consumers of cigarettes, beer and buy expensive munchies, using cabs, expensive nails, etc... It's fine with me. Cigars and cognac is not the Cobourg crowd, and they are annoying in their own way. Don't get me wrong.
I believe a fee for the beach could be a question of choice in a budget. For other it is going to the public centennial pool or becoming a member of the YMCA, going bowling etc..
Perhaps this leads to become the next question on the blog to be discussed: Would taxpayers subsidize the ones who cannot afford their way to the Heritage beach ?
(Student fee-senior fee-handicap fee, todler-fee etc.)Everything could be worked out.
I do thank you for your respect exchanging opinions.
This is the one I like:
"People pay for a bottle of water, which was free from a water fountain;"
was
Actually water is still and will continue to be free from a fountain; just like a public park,or a public beach, will continue to be free for the public to use.
Do you see a lovely drinking fountain, where people are lined up to go to in our Victoria Park ?
Making money on the week-end could help you to have one llike that in your Heritage Park.
Please see the picture:)
http://www.travelpod.com/travel-blog-entries/heatheravan/2005/1116432480/tpod.html#pbrowser/heatheravan/2005/1116432480/filename=dsc02436.jpg
Okie doke, security fences a la Ribfest. Trashy little cheap seives stretching a bit out into the water to keep interlopers from entering, the fence winds along the entire length of the walkway to Division street where it turns out into the water to prevent interlopers entry there. So where would the fence be open? How many openings to the beach? Who will secure each entry. What time of day will the gence go up and come down, or is this fence to be a permanent feature? C'mon man, detail. Sell your pay-as-you-go idea.
Wally, a tourist is a tourist. The type of tourism being conducted is parasitic, much like a poet is a poet even if he is a bad one.
On several occasions while walking in the park I have witnessed children trying to find space amongst the adult tourists in the water features, as well as myself being forced to walk on the sand as the board walk was blocked by tourists speaking french, I even said excuse me in french only to receive a look as if as if I was bothering them. On sunday evening while driving past the park I had to come to a complete stop while several tourists conversed in the middle of the street again looking as if I was causing some great offence to them. I do NOT want them to leave and never come back. I want them to enjoy the park however so should locals. The permit proposed earlier would also apply to locals wishing to have large gatherings as well. Thus we share the park not surrender it, or keep it to our selves.
Shinjura keyed, ”Wally, a tourist is a tourist. The type of tourism being conducted is parasitic, much like a poet is a poet even if he is a bad one.”
Sorry Shinjura, but you are quite wrong to assert that ‘a poet is a poet even if he is a bad one.’ A bad one is called a poetaster, not a poet. They can often be found swarming around poetry workshops.
Shinjura keyed, ”I have witnessed children trying to find space amongst the adult tourists in the water features,”
When I have been there on many many occasions, I have seen swarms of exhilaration squealing around the legs of adults, more often than not, the adults are called parents, and sometimes an adult just thinks to themselves, for a moment, let me have five minutes to feel like a child and do childish things. I’ve sat there for a good half-hour to see the full dynamic of the water feature. It is such fun. Anyway, perhaps you want to pass a by-law, put up a sign saying NO Adults Allowed.
It’s very interesting that when you look at a situation, you see people at their worst, whereas I see them as happy people frolicking in their own happiness.
Shinjura keyed, “as well as myself being forced to walk on the sand as the board walk was blocked by tourists speaking french, I even said excuse me in french only to receive a look as if as if I was bothering them.”
I’ve had that happen to me from time to time throughout my life in diverse communities, in assorted countries in a variety of venues. It comes from day to day living. If that is all you have to whine about then you are having wonderful life, and your misfortune is not to know it.
Shinjura keyed, ”On sunday evening while driving past the park I had to come to a complete stop while several tourists conversed in the middle of the street again looking as if I was causing some great offence to them.”
Oh posh. On Monday afternoon, August 23, I had a white pick-up truck on the grounds of Victoria Park drive around a row of picnic tables, drive right towards me as I was taking photographs of the grounds of the park. I won the game of chicken. An hour later I biked along Queen Street next to Victoria Park, and a car coming the opposite way swerved to intimidate me.
The difference is that your experience involved tourists (how do you know they weren’t locals) whereas mine involved locals. BTW, I bike. I hope you don’t drive your polluting vehicle gratuitously.
Use it or lose it.
...Shinjura keyed, “as well as myself being forced to walk on the sand as the board walk was blocked by tourists speaking french, I even said excuse me in french only to receive a look as if as if I was bothering them.”
The French are not familiar like the English-Ontario. This is a different culture, not the English-Ontario one, not the English-English one either, which involves a different sense of humour, different mannerism etc... Not everyone is polite, woman expect to walk first.
Also visiting a beach and talking to strangers on their beach is not part of their social culture. They are not Americans.
This country has two different worlds, even if French is a language which is also an adstrat (latin word which means to cohabitate with another language).
Poetry workshops like the one you were kicked out of Wally? I enjoy life very much, and I wish nothing but that enjoyment for others. This blog has become a tedious soapbox for your arguments and attacks on others opinions you are not interested in civil discussions. You are only out to bully others into agreeing with you. Since you cant even spell my name right I wish no further involvement. May you enjoy your life to the fullest.
Poetry workshops like the one you were kicked out of Wally? I enjoy life very much, and I wish nothing but that enjoyment for others. This blog has become a tedious soapbox for your arguments and attacks on others opinions. You are not interested in civil discussions. You are only out to bully others into agreeing with you. Since you cant even spell my name correctly I wish no further involvement. May you enjoy your life to the fullest.
Wally, you obviously weren't paying attention last week at COW when there was the deputation to request a neighbourhood park for the Pebble Beach area. Staff were asked for their input and noted that parks were intended for people living in the area and town planning principles recognised that. So presumably Victoria Park was originally planned to serve its neighbourhood. If you have an outdoor area such as Ontario Place designed to draw people from outside the local area, acres of car parking is constructed. I am not speaking for or against our visitors (I loved seeing the cricket game being played last year)but the fact remains that Victoria Park was not originally designed to serve people from outside the downtown area, let alone from other jurisdictions. So can we please keep that in mind when considering the various options. And not assume that people have the basest of motives when putting their suggestions forward if you don't happen to agree with them. As you live so close to the park, Wally, I assume you will be happy to offer up your garden as an overflow picnic area?
GailR, if the Town is saying that the parks are for the use of the local population only, then why are they advertising and promoting the waterfront far and wide? Something doesn't add up here.
I find it hard to believe that for year over year the Council's have approved these budgets and staff have prepared the plans with Council input for the attraction of visitors, only to find out that we have in fact been working against our own intentions all along!
Sounds a bit ridiculous.
GailR keyed, ”As you live so close to the park, Wally, I assume you will be happy to offer up your garden as an overflow picnic area?
I appreciate the generosity of your suggestion, however, the garden outside my place is not mine to offer. Obviously you don’t pay attention to the volumes of people that visit Victoria Park on its busiest days. There is plenty of room available for many many more picnickers, both local or otherwise. Victoria Park has expanded since its origin. It was not designed only for downtown, but for all of Cobourg at that time, including visitors that came off the docks of the day.
GailR keyed, ” And not assume that people have the basest of motives when putting their suggestions forward if you don't happen to agree with them.’
That is a two-way street, and I have been accused of base motives as well.
Shinjuro keyed, ”Poetry workshops like the one you were kicked out of Wally?”
I wasn’t kicked out of any poetry workshops, Shinjuro, because I don’t need to attend them. I’m a real poet, not a poetaster of the Better Poems & Gardens set. This totally erroneous assertion of yours is nothing more than an attempt at smearing, so don't get too righteous about yourself.
Shinjuro keyed, ”This blog has become a tedious soapbox for your arguments and attacks on others opinions you are not interested in civil discussions.”
Oh I get it. When you put forth an opinion, you seem to think no one should disagree with it, and if they disagree with it, then it should be done all milqtoast. As you can see on this forum, my opinion has constantly been attacked by many. This is good. It is an element of democracy. You participated well in the process, except for your choices of analogy, metaphor, simile, which ill-served your argument.
Shinjuro keyed, ”You are only out to bully others into agreeing with you.”
I couldn’t care less about whether anyone agrees with me or not. I am very used to being the black sheep in any grouping. You posit an argument, I reply to it effectively.
Shinjuro keyed, ”Since you cant even spell my name right I wish no further involvement.”
That’s all it takes? How petulant!
Victoria Park could be left alone without crickets, rackets, balls, or bats. It is a heritage park. You can play in your backyards all those games promoted by clubs. Everyone new in Town brings old ideas, ideas we had before.
Please be aware that the perfect masterplan for this Town, if you want to consult the expensive study), reveals that trees and greenery with benches and a full gate would be appropriate.
I am taking this opportunity to criticize the fountain at the Town Hall. The neolithic fountain has nothing to do with Historic Sites and Monuments Board of Canada. When this will be done properly, our houses in the historic districts will benefit a higher assessment.
Of course it is ridiculous.
The tourism bureau have been advertising our beach without any assurance from the town that adequate facilities, including garbage collections, washrooms or parking can be provided.
They have been advertising the beach without any real studies to indicate the beach visitors will spend any money in the town.
It is common for marketing departments to market products that do not exist. It is easier that way. Industry has been doing it for years, just read the Dilbert books or cartoons in the Globe and Mail to check the various ways they do it.
You will notice most of the town tourism publicity shows our beach as empty of people. That is because the photos are generally taken about 6am. The shadows confirm this.
Well...
Cobourg today:
http://t3.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcRyaKMh_bngI5tk_aKnUJb0ln6kXvfOQOqFSDG-X5SUn48l6BA&t=1&usg=__w0PRDL8eGOIJdDqNjhtmNJs7-Xk=
And the Cobourg the whiners want:
http://t2.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcR3wHzs4lkLNLw7nMpUpXgdmW99MLLON9Gibp5qXEU4-oz_IzM&t=1&usg=__Xp9_K-z3Chh4sXsx79f8KvKLRRU=
My kinda of town. NOT!
To Armchair BBQ said..."that adequate facilities, including garbage collections, washrooms or parking can be provided" and the need for "...real studies to indicate the beach visitors will spend any money in the town."
That is all there is to it; the problem and solution, well put.
It appears that town councils have simply rubber-stamped major events to happen there and then fail to monitor the impact that these events have on the park. That's indicative of a deriliction of vision. Certain standards of use should be established before any organization gets a permit, which should be contingent on such organizations leaving the park in the same condition they found it.
Perhaps organizations should put amounts of money in escrow to cover any expense required to repair any damage to the park.
TO CONCLUDE ON THE MAIN QUESTION (paid add from the newspaper) from Mr. Partridge seeking the mayoral race:
"Scofflaws undermine the rules and make us look ridiculous. Garbage and environment are big issues. How about a daily ‘environment fee’ for non-resident adults? Parking is another big issue. Why don’t we stop non-resident car access to the core on busy days? Force guests to walk in from further away. They’d bring less stuff and maybe visit downtown en route.”
a) Concerning his question of impunity: what are his suggestions? the other mayors failed this question on the job. How does he propose to enforce the law in Cobourg ? (Fire the Police, hire the OPP?)Nothing is said, just a whine. (This is a paid add).
b)Using all parking on both sides of our street is a solution; I dislike to be told there is a problem only, and nothing is being offered;(he needs the Town staff to elaborate?)
c)A lack of hospitality is not my idea on electing the mayor of my Town.
It is an immature vision, which shows a lack of hospitality, presents no solution. His opinion includes no research, no recent information, and has a patriarcal undertone.
All the other commentators had better things to say, even as a gossip.
MY marks: 4.5/ 10
Water is free from the rain barrel only!
Your tax bill includes all the expenses of parks including water maintenance for their greenery, flushing of toilets and drinking water in all public parks. Of course your water bill from the Waterfront utilities will come separately, covering the portion you consume at home.
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